Can we please stop with the..

[Garfaldo]

"I'm the queen of Sundren, and you owe me 500 gold in backed taxes"
*BLUFF ROLL 14 + 4 mod = 18*


Seriously, people are tossing around the bluff and intimidate skills every other second trying to get one over. And most of the circumstances people are bluffing about are laughable. Use some common sense and restraint folks.

[ThwartedNeo]

heh yeah, reminds me of a time some random guy tried to pin a halfling, wearing plate armor, as a thief by saying that the shortsword he was using was his, and rolled a bluff roll and expected people to believe him without any proof.

I like to roll intimidate, but i generally only use them when I am trying to scare someone to not want to fight me. I don't see a problem with some player acting as a highwayman, and rolling a diplo/intimidate mod to try and get you to pay him a tax to cross the road. But making it some huge some of money such as 500 gold isn't a good idea.

[Clutch]

"I'm the queen of Sundren, and you owe me 500 gold in backed taxes"
*BLUFF ROLL 14 + 4 mod = 18*


Seriously, people are tossing around the bluff and intimidate skills every other second trying to get one over. And most of the circumstances people are bluffing about are laughable. Use some common sense and restraint folks.

True, but a simple 'No you're not' will do at that moment

[Kaldaris]

There are rules for Bluff, and the more implausible the bluff, the less likely it is to work.

[qwerty06]

I think I am guilty of doing a few times but I would never take any gold off anyone. Dale has his whole political career ahead of him and I have toned down the rolls alot since: 1. He sucks and bluffs and diplomacy rolls, 2 it gets tedious very fast. But if someone wants me to roll I will glady do it.

*salutes Garfaldo*

[undeadsteak]

Dales bluffs are easy to beat anyways >>. And, bluffs arent going to work if somone whos a local in sunderen is there, or somone who knows about sunderen. They'd know who the queen/king is.\


Most of my intimidate rolls are used properly, for telling people to put away their weapons, when they dont listen.

[Clutch]

Dales bluffs are easy to beat anyways >>. And, bluffs arent going to work if somone whos a local in sunderen is there, or somone who knows about sunderen. They'd know who the queen/king is.\


Most of my intimidate rolls are used properly, for telling people to put away their weapons, when they dont listen.

It isn't about beating rolls, it's about how you respond to them. If Dale bluffs something and rolls a 3, then he is not convincing, that is all. You're not beating anything, hell, you don't even have to counter roll because it's all about context.

Nah, Syl isn't a guard, I wouldn't be suprised if someone wouldn't listen to her for that reason

[undeadsteak]

It isn't about beating rolls, it's about how you respond to them. If Dale bluffs something and rolls a 3, then he is not convincing, that is all. You're not beating anything, hell, you don't even have to counter roll because it's all about context.

Nah, Syl isn't a guard, I wouldn't be suprised if someone wouldn't listen to her for that reason

I know. but indimiatade makes somone usually listen, its like a threat i suppose. I wouldnt even have to use it to tell people to put away weapons, if they realised NPC gaurds are real!

[Ethereal Edge]

This is taken out of the 3.5 Player's Handbook:

Bluff Examples

The target wants to believe you: -5 Sense Motive Modifier

Ex. "These emeralds aren't stolen. I'm just desperate for coin right now, so I'm offering them to you cheap."

The bluff is believable and doesn't affect the target much: +0 Sense Motive Modifier

Ex. "I don't know what you're talking about, sir. I'm just a simple peasant girl here for the fair."

The bluff is a little hard to believe or puts the target at some risk: +5 Sense Motive Modifier

Ex. "You orcs want to fight? I'll take you all on by myself. I don't need my friends' help. Just don't get your blood all over my new surcoat."

The bluff is hard to believe or puts the target at significant risk: +10 Sense Motive Modifier

Ex. "This diadem doesn't belong to the duchess. It just looks like hers. Trust me, I wouldn't sell you jewelry that would get you hanged, would I?"

The bluff is way out there, almost too incredible to consider: +20 Sense Motive Modifier

Ex. "You might find this hard to believe, but I'm actually a lammasu who's been polymorphed into a halfling form by an evil sorcerer. You know we lammasus are trustworthy, so you can believe me."

[Scarlett]

True, but a simple 'No you're not' will do at that moment

Roll Wisdom to counter bluff; Common sense.

[Garfaldo]

That's good stuff Ethereal! Thanks. Gives some idea of a mod to apply to those outrageous bluffs.

[Multiplicity]

Using ability scores to counter skill scores isn't balanced. While you can get a lot of ranks using a skill, you're more limited with ability score modifiers. Therefore, the one rolling the skill has an advantage. Even someone with a wisdom of 18 won't have a good shot with somone who has a decent bluff skill. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why Obsidion did not put Sense Motive in as a skill when you have skills like Bluff and Diplomacy.

As for the original topic, people don't necessarily need to respect a rolled skill if what they're rolling for is hideously stupid like the example the original topic used.

[Scarlett]

Ahh, thats true...well, hum.

I'd roll it vs int then, or something. WIS is common sense though, so I figured it'd apply nonetheless.

[Arckeya]

Scarlet's idea does make sense, wisdom is one's sense of perception and common sense. And thus technically would apply when you're trying to second guess someone's attempt at a bluff or diplomacy. But Multiplicity makes a very valid point, you simply cannot solely compare an ability check to a skill check because let's face it. When you have a +20 bluff or diplomacy, a cleric with oh say 20 WIS would only get a +5 to his modifier.

On that note, skill checks are countered by skill checks according to the rulebook. And usually diplomacy, bluff, etc are countered by a Sense Motive roll as we all know. The key ability for the sense motive skill is "wisdom" so Scarlet hit it on the head there, the only problem is that we dont' have Sense Motive to pour skill points into.

Personally there was a post by GodBeastX I think it was? He mentioned about how as a player we should keep an open mind and take into context a person's bluff, diplomacy or intimidate roll and then correlate it with our own abilities.

So if someone came up and tried to lie to me about something and rolled a bluff. I'd probably compare it to my own bluff roll and also my will save. If my bluff roll came very close I'd either hesitantly believe it, or choose to disbelieve it while second guessing myself and roleplay it accordingly. If I beat their score by a descent amount I'd outright smile with a shake of my head with that disbelief and roleplay that accordingly.

Likewise in a similar situation let's say someone was trying to intimidate me. Going off what GodBeast said I would check it against my will as well as the situation on hand. If say I ran into a red dragon on the road and it snarled at me, if I were the lil lvl 4 I was now I would probably look at it with step back before booking it in zigzags. If in the same situation I were a lvl 20 my character would probably slide a hand to his sword hilt before slowly backing away and making his way out cautiously, perhaps even try to see what the dragon wants. But given the same will save let's say the lover of my character is being held captive by the dragon for whatever reason. Well don't be expecting him to rightly hightail it and run off screaming, but at the same time he wouldn't stupidly tear off his plate in a primal rage and charge the dragon with his fists.

I know it's hard for some people to actually take things into context in relation to their character and make a logistical educated call on how their characters would react to a certain situation based off their own skills or saves. But unfortunantly this is something that isn't as clear cut as you roll, I roll, and this is how it is. You have to use common sense and try seeing each situation independent of itself. And your character isn't the cannot be lied too, cannot be swayed or intimidated avatar of death.

Besides, is it really that fun to play a character that is immune and without flaws? Can't say I ever say it.

[ThwartedNeo]

Generally, if someone intimidates me, what i'll do is roll an opposing intimidation roll, and if i beat theirs, i will counter it with a intimidating response of my own, if i dont, then i will take their roll into consideration and act accordingly based on the situation. Another idea would be to roll a will save, and if you beat their intimidation roll, just rp not being effected by their threat.

You could possibly roll a concentration check against a bluff..just an idea