Feed Back Thread ((Spoilers))

[sharringtonm]

First of all, if your reading this, every connection quest and conversation in the game is about to be ruined for you, and hours of fun exploring will be lost. That said, by all means read on:

This is a feedback thread on the quests to unlock zones. It should be constructive feedback only in relation to how difficult it was to find the quests and unlock the zones.

The only concern right now is how straightforward/difficult it is to find the quests and unlock the map points. We may need some subtle refinement to make it more clear.

Anypost that disagrees with level based area caps, complains about realism, or has even the slightest mention of saying the world map is a bad idea, will be deleted entirely.

This is not a thread to post bugs. Posted Bugs will be deleted.

• Fiddlesworth: Unlocks Exigo Expedition Camp (Street of Avanthyr)
• Foulbreath: Unlocks Exigo Trading Post (Street of Avanthyr)
• City Hall Secretary: Unlocks Sundren Gates (Avanthyr City Hall)
• Ghelworg:Unlocks Sundren Gates (Streets of Avanthyr)
• Seargent Grayham: Unlocks Exigo Trading Post and Sundren Gates (Exigo Expedition Camp)
• Camdin: Unlocks Sestra and Mirakus Post (Viridale Bunker)
• Kaelin: Unlocks Sestra (Druid Glade)
• Lilian: Unlocks Mirakus Post (Druid Glade)
• Minivich: Unlocks Aquor (Exigo Trading House)
• Soup: Unlocks Exigo Expedition Camp (Exigo Trading House)
• Vani: Unlocks Viridale (Exigo Trading Post Near Campfire)
• Master Watchman: Unlocks Gates of the Sunderer (City Watch/Legionaiire Barracks)
• Tyran Priest: Unlocks Necropolis (Temple of the Triumverate)
• City Watch Clerk: Unlocks Viridale and Schild (City Watch/Legionaiire Barracks)

This is all I can remember for right now. So lets hear your feedback on these.

[Llew Hy]

Suggestions:

Move Fiddlesworth to a more obvious place.

After completing certain tasks have the NPC mention another person to see. (I.E. have Sgt. Grayham mention the Master Watchman and the Master Watchmen mention Camdin. "Master Watchman: Also, Camdin Whateverhislastnameis is looking for some help in the Viridale Forest, Speak to the Clerk if you need directions.")

[me_less]

Concur with above suggestion. Or if the desire NOT to make it linear is intentional, perhaps say that "Someone here at the port knows how to get to Sundren. Try checking the city hall"

One other possible recommendation:either name the secretary, tyran priest, etc or only give the map unlocks to named NPC's. I feel like I talked to every named NPC I could find between Sestra, Glade, Ranger Outpost, Port, etc. And I still couldn't find the Sundren gates. (I already completed the Ghelworg quest so my only other option was the Secretary)

I considered talking to every non-NPC out there and then I was overwhelmed at the task. (I.e. besides the sheer point-and-clicking involved, I would have to keep track of every NPC by location as I talked to them in order not to repeat the task. Since they're not named, this can become difficult). I got so frustrated that I had to log off.

Since I enjoy Sundren and the work being put into it, I figured that this would be worked out. A newcomer would probably not think of/have the tolerance to check every non-named NPC out there.

Just a couple of thoughts to consider.

[Llew Hy]

Is there any way to make their names a different color or perhaps add an asterisk on the end or something?

[Verrath]

I've only just started running the quests for one of my four characters. So far I have no show-stopper to report.

Although, in regards to straightforwardness - perhaps we should keep in mind that there are people like me who have characteritis.... and having to run all the unlock-errands all over again (some need to to hop across maps a bit, from what I can tell now) when you make a fresh character, while good for a first boost of XP, might get to be tedious. No biggie probably, but perhaps something to consider.

*two new characters and one old to go....*

[Saulus]

The quests to unlock areas were made specifically for that, if you did them before while they were fully implemented then there's not much I can do about that.

So far my only real complaint I've seen from people is "I have to do more work to get access to new areas when I'm an existing player". Well boo-hoo this is a beta. If that's your only reply to all the work we've done on this system then you take take your suggestions elsewhere.

That's not directed at anyone in particular, but suffice to say all I want to do here is to make sure the quests aren't overly hard to find, and that they follow a rather progressive path to introduce you to Sundren one bit at a time.

Also keep in mind that I have plans to have some kind of feature that will allow another player to join you in an area they haven't unlocked yet. As soon as you visit an area, it will be unlocked on your map (if there is a map point for it) so there will be other ways other than quests to unlock the map points.

Think of it like the campaign in the OC: You didn't just know where everywhere was, you had to be introduced to it all and had to find out where to go for what. The same level of immersion also applies in Sundren.

[Verrath]

As for the unlocking once you've been to an area: that works

I'm all for quests, and I think those ideas sound really good - and make sense too. I realize old characters got the short end of the stick for a bit but I'm sure it can and will be sorted. I hope I didn't come across as trying to bash the new system.

On the thread subject - From what I can tell with the limited quests I've run - they are perfect to introduce a new player, no argument about that. With partially knowing what I had to do, it took me about an hour to have all maps of Sundren City, the Trading Post and Sharan Hills unlocked. Still figuring out how to get to Viridale and the Druid Grove....

However, the fact remains - if people make a second, third, or fourth character - well.... it might be a little disheartening to get through all the steps again, because the thrill of discovery will be gone. (in that respect, replaying the OC was no fun ) Even if the quests I've done so far work well from a first time perspective. I'm not talking about the established characters who are now caught "in transition" as it were. Also not saying change this system, just that it's a fact to keep in mind. Maybe over time there can be some sort of shortcut system, such as the one you mentioned, Saulus, for returning players/alternate characters that doesn't involve having to bother a DM.

[Saulus]

If you make a new character, you'll have to do the quests again or find one of the other ways to reveal the map points. I have no intention on changing how that works.

[Kaeldorn]

Someone has to do the nitpicking, so I'll sacrifice myself for it: spelling mistakes.

- The dwarven trader in the Exigo Trading Post has a spelling mistake somewhere in his conversation when you ask him to hand over the tools for the dwarven smith in Avanthyr. Though I can't remember exactly where or what the mistake was. I suggest just re-reading it.

- Cleric of Tyr (who is just generally a tough cookie to find. Give him a name! Like.. Jacob! or something): "despoilers of the temple of Kelemvore" = Kelemvor

- Cleric of Tyr (again): "Whats left of it" = What's (apostrophe! )


I also want to say I agree with it that the searching is a little too random. In 3-4 hours of looking in logical places, I only found access to half of the areas. So I too would appreciate it if NPC's would direct you to other NPC's to uncover new areas. Within boundaries of making sense of course.

[Azathoth51]

Since I enjoy Sundren and the work being put into it, I figured that this would be worked out. A newcomer would probably not think of/have the tolerance to check every non-named NPC out there.

Just a couple of thoughts to consider.

*raises hand*

Patience to have the ability to WALK somewhere? Nope.

*reads list*

*feels ABSOLUTELY no guilt over it*

Besides... my character dosent WANT to talk to anyone... he wants to wander the countryside... which is apparently impossible to do without talking to some citybound peon.

[MithrilBlade]

A small thing: in druid grove Kaelin unlocks Mirakus Post and Lilian unlocks Sestra.

I think that despite the first strike of tragedy for being unable to go anywhere but two useless cities, I found the run quite refreshing, but I agree that there were some things that were posted: the NPCs, all of them, should have at least some sort of unique name that identifies them from the rest of the mass, I was having hard time find the right Priest of Tyr in Triumvirate building so I can just imagine how that would apply to new players.
Luckily this isn't the case with most of the NPCs.

I think Llew Hy's idea to add certain color tint to the names of those NPCs who'll help you to find new areas was a great one.
This wouldn't make the search outright easy and certain, you might stumble upon some locations a few times and make the search for the final area you're missing fun task, while you'd still know -who- to talk to.

[Kaeldorn]

A little gripe, about the quest for Aquor, it can't really be done IC by lawful good characters. They wouldn't run the errand for the red wizard and they wouldn't lie to him either. What I did, as neutral-near-chaotic good person, is decline once, talk to him again reluctantly, tell him I'd do it and then open the package to see what's inside. After all, I have to make sure that if it is dangerous, it never arrives on it's destination. As a side note, I think opening the box should give a minor chaotic alignment shift.

Kaelan: Getting the location of Sestra from him is a bit of a lucky guess. A hint in the first conversation option could be nice.

[joker]

I like the new feature, even if it was a bit frustrating at first. I found most of the people with no problem. I did get a bit of help last night and today, for a few areas that I had done the quests for already. Thanks.

I did notice that the Tyran Priest talked to me and unlocked the Necropolis. However, he would not talk to Pyras, for some reason. Not sure if it was because he was a Red Wizard?

[valenator]

I'm a Paladin of Tyr and he won't talk to me. :P

[sharringtonm]

Spelling errors fixed. Names added to the Secretary and cleric of Tyr.
Red Wizard Quest no longer has to be accepted to unlock Aquor.
((I hope you like what was in the box when you opened it Kaeldorn!))
Handicap color cues added to NPCs that unlock areas so you don't have to search for them anymore.
Fiddlesworth stays becuase he's in direct line of sight of the merchant that Darge Hemslate sends you to.



ALL of these quests are intentionally non linear. They are supposed to be one-offs. Kaeldorn and the members of The Boys, the group I've put together for these kind of things, are helping me brainstorm up some linear quests. Understand that Quests from point A to point B and back to Point A take around 4 hours each to make but only 10 minutes for you to complete. A linear quest of the magnituted you want is looking at 5 times that long.
It takes time to put those big ones in. Linearity is a waiting game. You need to have patience.