A Question on PvP Combat

[Kangleton]

This might be posted somewhere, but I'm a noob when it comes to searching the forums. So, anyways, my question is this...

Are there, or will there be, different consequences for death by PvP rather than death by NPC monsters?

I ask because I recently killed someone and then immediatly felt absolutely terrible about it as a player, knowing that I potentially deleveled someone. All worked out in the end, and this particular matter is of no consequence, but it still raised the concern. On IC grounds, my character was justified in his actions, but as a player, I feel like avoiding PvP due to the guilt I recieve thereafter.

So what's the official intention for PvP and its consequences?

[Phantom Lamb]

One option you can use is the .subdual (I think that's it) command. When a character dies by your hand, they are "unconscious" and will not die. Avoid using "DOT" spells (damage over time) with this. There is a potential for your damage to be applied after they are subdued, in which case they would lose the subdual marker and be killed immediately afterwards.

The negative side to subdual is no memory loss. They never died, they were never ressurrected, so they remember everything that happened. Unfortunately for evils, in a combat-based game, there are many times you have to kill someone just to get away with an evil act, so the PC won't remember what occured.

Your concerns sound more on the player side. Try sending your target a tell. I'm not sure what Saulus and LH have to say about this, but maybe you can come to an agreement using the subdual command, where the loser agrees to imply memory loss if you both flag subdual?

Again, this is not an official standpoint, fighting to the death should never be treated as "subdual" in my eyes unless you intend for them to live. But I'll throw it out there as a potential solution to your Carebea... I mean your concerns. Check with S and LH though please

[wangxiuming]

I think it's a good idea to make it a habit of activating subdual as soon as we log in. If you really want to send someone to the eternal night, you can always turn it off.

[Kangleton]

Yeah, the subdual option occurred to me, but you outlined my two problems in your own post. A) I'm a heavy on the casting, and the spells cause problematic effects on subdual, and B) the lack of memory loss is detrimental to a lot of aspects of the desired RP. I'd consider putting someone on subdual and then pretend to kill them, but that kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and doesn't really solve problem A for me.

So, yeah... word from Saulus and/or LH would be beneficial here. I'm all for death being a very serious thing and I really believe it should be, but the feeling that some people get as a player is just terrible, when really, it was the right thing for their character to do.

Bah! I'm a pansy.

[ThePaganKing]

I think Subdual is a good solution, but it should be agreed by everyone. I always send a tell to say "subdual?" if the person says no, then hey, if they die or I die, then them is the breaks. Either one of us can still back down if we don't want to die, based on RP and all.

[Lollercide]

Well - I'll give you what I've come to understand as the pin-cushion Paladin. I agree with Kang.

It sucks actually killing a player and having them deleveled. I force myself to do it because it's what Hano would do, but.. In the end all you're doing is throwing away well spent time the player put into their character. I've never seen a signus past level 8, so I imagine that there are very few people with 'get-out-of-jail free' cards and that makes me really hesitant to act how I should.

However, I do not really mind if Hano dies... Most of the people I PvP are nice guys OOC and are more than willing to res me at a cost (( Usually my sword and gold ))

[Kangleton]

In response to the post above Lollercide's:

Subdual isn't death. My character wishes death upon the person, but I as a player am hesitant due to the OOC consequences that the other person shall suffer. Level loss, item loss, gold loss, or any combination of the aforementioned... it isn't something I want to put on others, as I know I'd hate to see that happen to my character.

Subdual doesn't work with certain spell effects, and it doesn't have the same RP effect as an actual death. People don't need to get you raised, or find you, or see your corpse; it's just different. There is also no memory loss, and so it just isn't viable sometimes. And in those times, my empathy kicks in and I feel like a complete douche-bag for having killed someone, even though my character felt justified.

That's why I'd like to know if PvP shall be treated differently than PvM, and incur lighter penalties, or different conditions. Perhaps that the one who made the first hostile action suffers terribly upon death, but the defender doesn't have it so harsh, due to the fact that they didn't necessarily chose it upon themselves.

I dunno... I just want to be free of the guilt

Saulus, LH?

[Landaren]

What is this subdual of which you speak?

No but really if you die in PvP and you don't get DM resed you take full xp hit for it.

[sharringtonm]

Mechanicly, there is no difference in death penalties.

In the scripts, I've seen that someone tried to put something in for it, but it looks like they stopped halfway and never went thru with it for whatever reason.

[Kangleton]

Yeah, I thought I remembered either Saulus or Godbeast once stating that PvP would be an entirely different thing, but that was never expanded upon in the post that I had seen (if I even really saw it).

[Leaving Hope]

Kangleton, I appreciate that you're putting thought into this, and respect other people's feelings. There are a few things that can be done to improve the CvC experience for everyone.

1.) If possible, send the other player a tell ahead of time. This isn't always possible, because the element of surprise is sometimes needed.

2.) Send a the other player a tell AFTER to make sure they're okay with how things went down, and to let them know there's no hard feelings. Make sure they distinguish the difference between YOU, as the player, and your character.

3.) Don't kill a player more than once per day. If you're killed, don't go back for revenge that day.

4.) Use Subdual mode

And just a friendly reminder: make sure you're setting people to hostile before engaging in hostilities as far ahead of time as possible. Some people even do it as soon as they login.

[Kangleton]

So does that imply that PvP shall remain with the same set of conditions that PvM has?

[Leaving Hope]

So does that imply that PvP shall remain with the same set of conditions that PvM has?

At this time, no one on the staff has mentioned any updates to that part of the death system that I'm aware of.

My personal belief is that CvC should not incur any penalty, but the system was designed before my arrival and I'm sure with good reason.

[Landaren]

I need to pile up some corpses. Get the res button ready.

[Leaving Hope]

I need to pile up some corpses. Get the res button ready.

Sounds like Tifton and Neradnal are overdue for a killing spree.