Character Build (and Harpers)

[Deathmage]

Hello!
For a very long time - since the days of my NWN1 roleplaying - I've had a conception of a character who's not a typical adventurer. Instead, she was to be an archaeologist, historian, scholar, traveller, scribe and treasure hunter. Because this character would die in two seconds in any non-RP server, I've shelved her for a long time. Sundren, however, seems like a great place for me to try this out: there's great roleplaying, and the city houses a library and a university.

However, when it came to actually creating her - I came into problems. So here I am!

The character would have average/low Str/Dex/Con and high Int/Wis, and above average Cha (maybe). The most important skills for her to focus on are Lore, Disable Device, Open Lock (to get into the tombs for hands-on research), Search. Other skills are possibly Spot, Listen, Survival (purely for RP), Heal (?) Spellcraft (?), or Concentration (?). Important feats are Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus: Lore, Brew Potion, maybe Able Learner.

Oh, and she's a half-elf, though considering they look hideous in NWN2 I might be reconsidering that. So, no multiclassing problems.

There are three classes I'm considering and each have its advantages and drawbacks.

Bard
Pros: Bardic Knowledge (great way to boost Lore), varied spellcasting (fitting in with the scholar image), average HP and fighting gives traveller image.
Cons: I don't need Perform at all (the basis of Bardiness), Cha-based spellcasting, no Open Lock/Disable Device.

Rogue
Pros: Disable Device, Open Lock, traveller thing, lots of skill points.
Cons: Sneak Attack. It's just silly to see my scholar character backstabbing goblins. Plus, no spellcasting.

Wizard
Pros: Very scholarly, familiar (I love familiar interaction!), feats like Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion, Int-based spellcasting, metamagic feats?
Cons: Too magic-orientated, no disable device/open locks, pathetic HP.

Sorcerers may be also be a choice, but they're pretty much the same deal as Wizards.

So right now I'm considering a Rogue/Wizard, though I'll just have to ignore that annoying Sneak Attack. Alternatively I could take Bard with Able Learner feat, and dump points into DD/OL anyway (though progression would be very slow). Perhaps a Bard/Wizard so there's no sneak attack? But then there's no DD/OL...argh! What do you guys think?

If possible, ultimately I would like the character to become a Harper Agent (despite its general crappiness); which requires a spellcasting class (so Pure Rogue is out). Harper Knowledge would be excellent for this character, and I think it'd make very interesting RP and story oppertunities. However, does the Harpers actually exist on this server? There's no point playing an agent for a nonexistant organisation...

Thirdly, my extremly cheesy and lame name for the character is "Wings". This might not be her real name (who knows, maybe she had hippie parents), but I'm wondering if it's alright if I use it. It'd be the name she would tell everyone; and it would discourage metagaming.

So, yeah. Here's my longwinded post. Thanks in advance for any help!

EDIT: Does Feats that give bonuses to skills count for PRC requirements? (looking at that Diplomacy 8 for Harper Agent).

[Jaeram]

I think rogue/wizard might be the easiest way for you to go with trying to make this. For trying to overcome the HP issue a bit, while using a low melee/high knowledge stats character you might consider taking the mind over body background trait feat, it'll use your int and meta magic feats to give you more health.

I believe that only 'actual' skill points invested in the skill work towards your requirements for a PRC. Meaning that feats and other means such as background traits do not contribute to this, as they award a skill 'bonus' that effects the final skill rank (like adding the dex modifier to skills like hide and move silently).

It sounds like an interesting character concept to me, the Indiana Jones type. I know first hand that whenever you try to make a special class for yourself that isn't already implemented, you'll have to step through a few hoops and maybe take something that doesn't seem to make much sense, or ignore certain abilities you might receive from a class.

Good luck with the build though, and the name seems fine to me, whether it's their real name or a nick name *shrugs*.

[Deathmage]

Ooh, yes, I forgot the Mind Over Body feat. Hmm, yes, that could change things a bit.

Not so sure about Indiana Jones-ness, though there ARE whips in this game, I guess... :P

Thanks for your help!

[Urithrand]

Does Feats that give bonuses to skills count for PRC requirements?

I believe that only 'actual' skill points invested in the skill work towards your requirements for a PRC. Meaning that feats and other means such as background traits do not contribute to this, as they award a skill 'bonus' that effects the final skill rank

This is correct, it's the base score that determines PrC qualification, not the modded score.

By the sounds of it, you might consider the PrC Arcane Trickster, which would afaik give you all the class skills you want. Also it makes a lot of sense RP-wise, although it does still give you that annoying backstab multiplier. All in all though, it's not that ridiculous. Backstab is about knowledge, knowing where to stab for the best result. A scholar would have some knowledge of biology I reckon, so it's not that unfeasible.

You might want to be a human, as it sounds like you're going to be using a large number of skills and feats, so the bonus ones would come in handy. Start off 1st level as rogue for the big boost of skill points for your first level and take able learner or something equally as RP feasible. Hope this helps!

[Deathmage]

Good point about humans, though the HE is for RP purposes...hmm. I'll consider it. If I can find a better looking human, maybe :P

Arcane Trickster...had a look at their abilities. They do have all the skills I need. But Pilfer Magic and Improptu Sneak Attack isn't really what I'm after...besides, being a Harper would be awesome. :P

Not sure about the Biology thing. I mean, you don't need to take Biology to know to poke someone in the head with a stick hurts a bit more. I wonder if a DM could just remove the Sneak Attack feat or something?

I'm also considering having her being a Diviner specialist, which would probably officially make her the most useless character on Sundren.

[Gairun]

Make a Human bard, take the 'Able Learner' feat. You can now get any skill for 1 skill point. However the cap on cross class skills is still half your character level +3.

You can easily access Harper Agent with this set up and you will have a very easy time setting the tone for your character.

[Dark presence]

Isn't Harper restricted? You would have to actually become a Harper first before you're going to be a Harper scout. And no one likes the Harpers! But seriously there is probably going to be that RP hurdle to overcome first, and I don't really know how Harpers go recruiting people. I'm also not sure if there are any on the server anymore.

I'm also curious, if your character is more of a scholar/researcher/archeologist type, do they really want their knowledge getting used for politics, taking sides in certain conflicts as being a Harper would necessitate? Typically those types are neutral neutral. Knowledge is all they are after and they don't want to have their work dismissed or tainted as politically slanted. Indiana Jones is included in that, since he seemed more interested in museum pieces and letting the knowledge be used by all, rather than letting them be used politically and for power by the Nazis.

[Jaeram]

By Indiana Jones I meant more along the lines of temple/cave/ruin delver than whip wielder.

If you wanted to use rogue/mage over bard, one thing to consider is that rogues, like bards, get access to pretty much every skill except for perform and maybe heal and concentration, but your mage can give you the concentration, and since you didn't want the singing perform is an unnecessary skill. I would suggest human over half elf for a feat intensive class, but if its for RP reasons then *shrug*.

I was going to suggest an Arcane Trickster build as well, but seeing as how this server is essentially max level 15 right now, it can be fairly restricting when making a build using PRC's or more than 2 classes, and since you wanted Harper I figured you would want to focus more on that.

As far as I know Harper Scouts are open, mainly because no one wants to play them. I could be wrong though.

UPDATE : http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4912 According to the restricted races and classes list, Harper Agent is not restricted in any way, nor does it require any in character actions to become one. Probably because I don't think anyone before you has ever wanted to be a harper agent lol. Personally I think the Harper class would be cool if there were some in character things to go along with it, kind of like the harper/shadow thieves thing from BG2, but since we don't have anything like that yet, it doesn't really appeal to anyone.

[Peridan]

Just as a note on the low dex/str, Indiana Jones was probably pretty dexterous. All that jumping from moving cars and avoiding ancient booby traps. So I wouldn't discount completely a low dex score.

[ThePaganKing]

I would just go bard, take able learner feat, and then put points into what you need. As to the pick lock and such, you probably wouldn't be able to pick locks like a rogue anyway, so the lack of the total skill would go with your RP.

Also, you could pump up your dex a bit, like 16 and then your lockpick wouldn't be that bad anyway. You can also use lockpicks to help.

Just a thought. I find bards are the most flexible characters out there, IMO.

[Jaeram]

If he is consistently putting points in to pick lock/disable device his rogue levels will let him be better at it, even with average dex, than any non rogue class. Unless they changed it on Sundren, only rogues can disable devices past DC20 and since you are taking 20's out of combat, any rogue levels and DD is going to be better at it. He mentioned he wanted DD and if he's making a crypt dweller kind of guy, he would probably want him to be good at identifying and disabling traps, not necessarily just being able to pick a chest open.

No offense to bards lol, or pagan and his bard's , I like bards, but for some reason magical singing doesn't make much sense to me here. While it may seem more effective from a build stand point, he mentioned he wanted to use an int based caster, so rogue/wizard seems closest to me. I don't know how he wants to breakdown his character (heavier wiz or heavier rogue or even) but it seems pretty easy to ignore the sneak attacks, and rogue wizard with mind over body seems like it would have the least amount of 'cons' on his list.

[ThePaganKing]

I agree with some of your points; however, I also see Bards as a jack of all trades type of character. They travel a lot and thus need a bunch of skills to survive in cities, dungeons, castles, and the wild. they also have high lore and can use magic devices and such.......basically having many skills (jack of all trades). I see archaeologists and such as a similar type, they need a lot of skills to be able to study and then go out and find things.

I thought this made more sense than a wizard/rogue. However, I think either build would suite his needs.

[Venture]

theres always arcane trickster

[Deathmage]

Thanks for all the reponses! Yeah, I see in the end it ultimately boils down to Rogue/Wizard vs Bard (which, in itself, is pretty much Rogue/Wizard anyway). I'll have to think about it.

I might really have to be a human. Harpers need Alertness and Iron Will; and Mind Over Body has to be taken at level one. If I do take it, this means I'll only get to start Harping at level nine. Ugh.

What exactly does the Rogue's trap sense do? They're the only one able to disable DC 20 traps? Aren't all traps DC 20?

And could I assume DM's to work in plots if I do become a Harper Agent? Pretentious question, but it has to be asked .

[Kelmoth Xanthor]

I thought mind over body only worked with your initial level, and then you reverted to your con bonus for additional HP. If so its a wasted feat imho.