Unintentional AC buff across the board

[Gairun]

Oh no no, please dont' get me wrong guys, I'm not complaining or anything at all. The latest patch did in fact 'fix' natural ac on monsters, you can read about it in the patch notes. I don't have an opinion one way or the other, I simply did want to bring it to the devs attention though in case they were unaware.

There is a difference between camping/expecting the same thing etc. and simply reporting a possible unknown mechanics change, which I did. And yes the sharahan goblins ac's have gone up +4, and ogres being the most extreme case have had their ac go up +9.

EDIT: I hope that clears up my point to everyone, as the topic isn't "you should party up etc.", the topic is there was a game mechanics change with the latest patch 1.12 for NWN2.

[Gamling]

So goblins ang ogres are a little tougher. *shrugs*

[Peridan]

So goblins ang ogres are a little tougher. *shrugs*

But the payout is not equal. If you increase the danger of something, hopefully the risks will increase as well. It's not particularly fair for those characters just able to handle themselves in the forest to suddenly find they can't hit a fish in a barrel with a fireball without at least increasing the reward attained by it.

Just my opinion, disregard at your leisure

[Gairun]

So goblins ang ogres are a little tougher. *shrugs*

It's not goblins and ogres. . . please read my post. All creatures and enemies natural ac is increased with the latest patch by obsidian. If your going to post please post something that has to do with the topic of the Unintentional AC increase to enemies on servers since the 1.12 patch.

[sharringtonm]

It's not goblins and ogres. . . please read my post. All creatures and enemies natural ac is increased with the latest patch by obsidian. If your going to post please post something that has to do with the topic of the Unintentional AC increase to enemies on servers since the 1.12 patch.

Thats not entirely true Gairun.

Here's the real info on what has happened.

Originally the developers on Sundren made these critters and some of them got a natural AC increase. Typiclly this will only apply to monster types and specificly named NPCs that needed a boost. I doubt your gonna find any difference in bandits.

Now a few patches ago (it was like 4 or 5 months ago), the AC boost vanished. Something broke. So all of a sudden we've got all these critters running around with lower AC then intended. And you all have been having fun slaughtering them. The patch itself, did not increase anything's natural AC, it let all the natural AC increases actually take effect. The developers increased the ACs a long long time ago.

Now its fixed and their back to their originally intended levels.

The bug isn't the AC they're at now, the bug was the AC they were at before the latest patch.

[Gamling]

Ok, Ok, since every single monster has an increase in AC it's back to normal. I think it will help my brother who plays on this server to stop complaining sbout finding a party.

[Gairun]

That makes sense sharringtonm, I knew there was something wonky with the natural ac's in the toolset. At least now when you build a creature you will get a proper print out of their stats before being placed in the server.

[rustediron]

Lol, I remember when I walked into a DM trap set for a group of lev 19s...

I got COMPLETELY creamed - attack bonus of 45, LOL xD

[Baculus]

I think this "fix" just pushes people to go for the already over done tanking mage set up... and I don't think a party of four+ should be required to go into the only newbie friendly area in the game.

I think the goblin cave was better as a quick startup to a decent level(Around four-five) so that person could go to other areas to roleplay; as well as a crash course for how the server worked for newer players.'

*Edit* And on further thought, it doesn't make sense that simple goblins or gnolls would be so skilled in combat to be able to consistently parry, dodge, or kill any sort of trained warrior one versus one. That in itself makes less since IC then anything else.

[sharringtonm]

*Edit* And on further thought, it doesn't make sense that simple goblins or gnolls would be so skilled in combat to be able to consistently parry, dodge, or kill any sort of trained warrior one versus one. That in itself makes less since IC then anything else.

Why would you assume they were simple untrained gnolls and gobliins? The lore to Sundren suggests those critter are organized and well armed and trained.
http://sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

and I don't think a party of four+ should be required to go into the only newbie friendly area in the game.

And I think the sewers are pretty noob friendly myself. I know I could kill everything in it except that stupid lizardman shaman that becomes a bear, while at level 3.


Remember, assuming something does not make it true. Its good that you posted your comment, it might stave off a million replies among the same idea.

[Baculus]

I think the ones in Viridale forest are a different story- many occasions events there have suggested and proven that. Though I still don't think 1v1 they should be able to win against a level 7-8 melee class... specially since there are plenty of wizards who actually fair better face to face because of the way there spells can work.

But the one in the hills, there is no way I could see anyone thinking they're well armed and trained. The fact that there is a group that easily carved out a niche there as a place of refuge help confirm this idea. They're loosely organized at best- that's why a handful of people can annihilate their chief- the strongest and most powerful of them all.

They barely come stomach high on most people and wield common, non-magic or well forged weaponry. To a trained warrior one of these would not pose a threat realistically. They would in packs or groups... but not one of them.

The main point though is that this change effects the warriors much more than mages, whose tactics against these groups have not been changed much if at all.

And I'm going to quote Peridan on this one...

But the payout is not equal. If you increase the danger of something, hopefully the risks will increase as well. It's not particularly fair for those characters just able to handle themselves in the forest to suddenly find they can't hit a fish in a barrel with a fireball without at least increasing the reward attained by it.

Just my opinion, disregard at your leisure

Again, if you want to be fully realistic with the competence of these monsters- assuming they are well geared and trained; and to be worthy to kill a warrior one vs one, then the knowledge taken and gained from that encounter should be vastly more than whats currently being given.

If each of them is a deadly- well trained and geared fighting machine then it shouldn't take the same person 15-20 times of clearing out their entire society to have bettered their skills enough to move onto somewhere else.

[sharringtonm]

I went in the mod and looked. The Spittlefist Goblins have a natural ac of 2. I'm sorry but if people feel that makes them PC killers ( a 2 point ac gain?), I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree.
As for XP not being worth the risk vs reward.. I will send you here: http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4019

Read the #1 Rule of Sundren's forum. Please don't aggravate the owner of the server. I have to deal with him on MSN and when he's in a bad mood, he makes us all cry.

[Peridan]

Damn, I had completely forgot about that post....well, I added the disclaimer at the bottom!

[Baculus]

I went in the mod and looked. The Spittlefist Goblins have a natural ac of 2. I'm sorry but if people feel that makes them PC killers ( a 2 point ac gain?), I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree.
As for XP not being worth the risk vs reward.. I will send you here: http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4019

Read the #1 Rule of Sundren's forum. Please don't aggravate the owner of the server. I have to deal with him on MSN and when he's in a bad mood, he makes us all cry.

The aim of my comment wasn't to complain about the XP gain but to dispute...

"Why would you assume they were simple untrained gnolls and gobliins? The lore to Sundren suggests those critter are organized and well armed and trained....

...Remember, assuming something does not make it true. Its good that you posted your comment, it might stave off a million replies among the same idea."

The thing was that I didn't just "assume", but took what is present in game, along with the perceptions given from the NPCs, to arrive at my thoughts. And the way you disputed it wasn't exactly tactful, not to say my response was any better.

And everything aside aside, as others have said +2 AC is equal to two levels for a melee class- which is something that will make a large difference for new characters.

[sharringtonm]

Thank you for your opinion Baculus. It is noted.