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So another thread by yours truly, the amazing Driderman, this time regarding the use of dice rolls in game.
Lets start this by admitting that I hate the dice. I loathe them. They interfere with my game, forcing me to bother about calculations, DCs and trying to figure out what my character can and can not do based on numbers on my character sheet rather that what I've decided on through his backstory.
Of course, I realise we need the dice, from time to time at least.
Sometimes, you need to roll that listen or spot check to see if you notice something, maybe a lore to decide whether you know a specific piece of information. All good, of course.
Where it goes wrong though, is those wellmeaning individuals that have gotten the mistaken impression that every task they undertake requires a dice roll to see if it succeeds.
Take for example last night (well it was night for me), there was a DM event involving a small girl that at some point gets knocked unconscious.
Paladin-guy with a strength modifier of +6 decides to pick her, which reasonally should not be a problem. Except he decides to roll a strength check for it and ends up with a 9 after the +6 mod...See where this is going?
Where he could easily have emoted *lifts girl over his shoulder* and be done with it, he instead in one fell dice roll dug himself into a hole there was no getting out of.
Now, if the DM event had revolved around the conflict of lifting little girls, I could see why there would be need for dice-roll, however strange, but this wasn't really the focal point of the story.
Another example, people using bluff telling you a lie and then rolling their bluff. You already know they're lying now, they just told you with their dice roll. Of course, your character doesn't know but that doesn't change the fact that you do. Some people will rp according to this, intentionally or not.
The way I imagine it could be done is tell your lie and if the other person seems to disbelieve it follow up with a "no really, it's true" and then you roll bluff.
On the other hand, if the person lied to believes it, you've had a perfectly good roleplaying encounter without the need to resort to the dice, which is where I at least think we should be as much as possible. This of course goes for other social skills as well
Pen & Paper Dungeons & Dragons tell us that social skills should not be used against other PCs at all, which is a point I very much agree with. Still, in a game such as NWN there will be situations that are best resolved by a roll of the dice.
I have a particular issue with the social skills though, since there is no counterpart to them.
Which means boosting bluff and then constantly enforcing dice rolls on other players could lead to all manner of annoying situations... Sure, some people use wisdom as the counterpart, but where's the fairness in that? I mean, you can have 4 ranks in bluff at level 1 if it's a class skill, while your wisdom will likely be around 8-12 if it's not a core ability and will most likely never rise either.
Which quickly means that you will believe every single lie told to you, even with an above-average wisdom of 12.
I say instead, let bluff and diplomacy be opposed by themselves instead. That would sit well with me, at least, after all it takes one to know one, right?
Lets start this by admitting that I hate the dice. I loathe them. They interfere with my game, forcing me to bother about calculations, DCs and trying to figure out what my character can and can not do based on numbers on my character sheet rather that what I've decided on through his backstory.
Of course, I realise we need the dice, from time to time at least.
Sometimes, you need to roll that listen or spot check to see if you notice something, maybe a lore to decide whether you know a specific piece of information. All good, of course.
Where it goes wrong though, is those wellmeaning individuals that have gotten the mistaken impression that every task they undertake requires a dice roll to see if it succeeds.
Take for example last night (well it was night for me), there was a DM event involving a small girl that at some point gets knocked unconscious.
Paladin-guy with a strength modifier of +6 decides to pick her, which reasonally should not be a problem. Except he decides to roll a strength check for it and ends up with a 9 after the +6 mod...See where this is going?
Where he could easily have emoted *lifts girl over his shoulder* and be done with it, he instead in one fell dice roll dug himself into a hole there was no getting out of.
Now, if the DM event had revolved around the conflict of lifting little girls, I could see why there would be need for dice-roll, however strange, but this wasn't really the focal point of the story.
Another example, people using bluff telling you a lie and then rolling their bluff. You already know they're lying now, they just told you with their dice roll. Of course, your character doesn't know but that doesn't change the fact that you do. Some people will rp according to this, intentionally or not.
The way I imagine it could be done is tell your lie and if the other person seems to disbelieve it follow up with a "no really, it's true" and then you roll bluff.
On the other hand, if the person lied to believes it, you've had a perfectly good roleplaying encounter without the need to resort to the dice, which is where I at least think we should be as much as possible. This of course goes for other social skills as well
Pen & Paper Dungeons & Dragons tell us that social skills should not be used against other PCs at all, which is a point I very much agree with. Still, in a game such as NWN there will be situations that are best resolved by a roll of the dice.
I have a particular issue with the social skills though, since there is no counterpart to them.
Which means boosting bluff and then constantly enforcing dice rolls on other players could lead to all manner of annoying situations... Sure, some people use wisdom as the counterpart, but where's the fairness in that? I mean, you can have 4 ranks in bluff at level 1 if it's a class skill, while your wisdom will likely be around 8-12 if it's not a core ability and will most likely never rise either.
Which quickly means that you will believe every single lie told to you, even with an above-average wisdom of 12.
I say instead, let bluff and diplomacy be opposed by themselves instead. That would sit well with me, at least, after all it takes one to know one, right?
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