Concering Ao

[Shadoweaver]

I know that the server has a rule that 30 ranks in lore are required to know about Ao's existence, but while I do not in any way challenge the DM's authority, I'd like to make a case that the policy should be changed. Mostly because my character gets into a lot of theological discussions and almost inevitably someone brings up Ao and then someone else immediately chastises them for it and tells them the rule. In addition I'd like to add this quote from the pen and paper D&D sourcebook on religion in the Realms. This is in fact the second paragraph of the book.:

"All deities in Toril are subject to Ao the Overgod. Ao has almost no direct interaction with Toril and would be largely forgotten by mortals if not for his role in the Time of Troubles. Already, Cults founded in Ao's name a decade ago die out and Ao's name dissapear suggesting the overgod has no wish to be known by the mortals of Toril."

This passage suggests to me that at the time frame of the book (roughly DR 1372, the year the server is set at) Ao's existence was still known widely, even if it was dissapearing. The time of troubles is only 14 years ago on a world with species who lifetime is measured in centuries. I suggest we let people talk about Ao, just never let anyone take him as their god (or assume that means they end up faithless) and never let anyone be a priest of Ao.

Please keep in mind this is just a suggestion. I acknowledge that this decision is in the DM's hands. I'm just trying to offer a different perspective.


Thanks,
Shad

[Unholy Carp]

Also, the monks in Sestra have a copy of prayers to the overgod that anyone can browse. This was always a bit confusing to me with regards to this policy.

[Kangleton]

I would like to add to this, that Lore is a skill not dependant on combat, though involves levels, which involve XP, which for the most part, involves combat. Why can one not be a brilliant, knowledgable scholar without having 6 attacks per round, or the ability to to hurl a 10d6 Fireball, or a resume' which includes "genocidal goblin-slayer", which, basically, is required to approach anywhere near the requirements to even know who Ao is... which, actually, is impossible anyways. 30 ranks in Lore requires, what, 27 levels? We're capped at 12 levels lower than that?

So... nobody on the server is allowed to know who Ao is, even though there are published books, cults of Ao, and marks of his appearence from only FOURTEEN years ago, just because they haven't killed enough goblins to gain the XP required to invest in a skill completely unrelated to killing goblins in the first place. And then what? If anyone makes it to level 27 somehow, they just have a revelation?

"Gosh, upon further review, the facts suggest there is an overgod named Ao, of which I could never have fathomed before, due to my insufficient amount of time spent killing things! I was woefully ignorant."

Am I missing something? I probably am. 3:00am, and stuff... but yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me.

[Aries1918]

I lol'd at that last post

[Shadoweaver]

Also note, that on the 30 ranks of lore requirement, what happens when someone meets it and then tells everyone they meet about AO? how many ranks are going to be required after that?

Shad

[Saulus]

Sundren is also very far away from most of the civilized lands of Faerun and therefor is not always subject to the same information being spread elsewhere. In Sundren Ao's name means very little to people.

[sparkeh]

Also note, that on the 30 ranks of lore requirement, what happens when someone meets it and then tells everyone they meet about AO? how many ranks are going to be required after that?

Shad

Oh, then we all have to put our hands over our ears and sing "la la la la la la my lore is not higher enough to hear this la la la la"

[ThePaganKing]

We have already had the discussion about skills and experience, in fact, a couple times. You can get xp from just standing around talking (30xp per 10 mintues) and also get xp from DM events, which there have been many lately. I know people that have leveled many times over just through the RP exp.

As to killing to gain experience, well, that is the engine and that is AD&D. It is supposed to be an adventure, not someone sitting in his room in the top of the tower talking politics or philosophy with his buddy. You do that all day, and then when the realm needs you, what are you going to do, give a dissertation on Ao? How will that defeat the bad guys that are killing everything in the realm.

If you don't like the system, go find another server that more accurately caters to your style of play, LOL!

The only characters that I can see really becoming powerful without actually going out into the world are wizards, who can gain their power from intense study and experimentation, and rogues, who can gain their rogue abilities by stealing, picking locks, etc., although that means going out into the world and doing those things.

Clerics go out and preach, heal, and yes, fight
Druids are in the world, the forest, healing, helping, defending (fighting)
Fighters, well, they fight
Paladins, they are the uber fighter of their deity, they fight
Bards, they are out in the world, experiencing everything as they sing their way through the realm, so pick up all kinds of skills to survive, fighting is one of them.

I could go on............but do I need to?

[Kangleton]

I completely agree with everything you said, but also find it to not really relate to the situation. No matter how you go out and get XP, no matter what class you are, it doesn't really matter... once you've heard the name Ao, you've heard the name Ao. Once you've found a book that talks about Ao, you now posess that knowledge. And no matter how you get your experience, you still need to be at level 27 to have 30 ranks of Lore, and you can't even achieve that through RP XP. Additionally, even if you could, levels don't reflect your knowledge. A high level shouldn't just automatically be allowed to know more stuff than a low level.

And Saulus, what you said makes sense, but most of Sundren's population are recent immigrants, no? I might be wrong on that, but I think I read it. Technically, they're all immigrants, right? Sundren was discovered recently, and not always populated? So... wouldn't that mean that people would realistically be aware of outside affairs, somewhat, since outside people are always coming in?

[Dark presence]

Well I think its iffy to say people are still remembering Ao. I mean remember, a lot can happen in four years (following the decade the Ao cults lasted). Waukeen returned, Bane was reborn from Xvim, the City of Shade appears out of no where, Velsharoon becomes a god, Kelemvor becomes god of the dead, and Cyric has a mountain of stuff going on. Thats all in the last 4 years alone. So its easy to forget Ao with just that stuff going on.

However, I think the real thing to remember is that its not logical whats going on. Ao is the god of gods. If you think that reading a book about Ao means you'll remember him 5 minutes later, you're probably forgetting the kind of power Ao has. In those 5 minutes, the book has probably been rewritten, leaving any mention of Ao out completely, and you totally forget. I'm sure we've all had those moments where we just suddenly forget what we were doing, or what we were going to say, and thats probably what it would be like.


The last point is that it would just be absurd for the overwhelming majority of people in the realms. The gods are real, and their presence is felt through various signs, manifestations, visions, etc. and of course their clergy who wield very real divine magical powers. But worship Ao and you get nothing out of it, and anyone who does remember that point would be completely justified in rejecting the concept or existence of Ao.

[Shadoweaver]

The problem here really has nothing to do with Sundren, it has to do with the Forgotten Realms. Ao was the second biggest mistake TSR ever made (Cyric being the biggest) when it comes to the Realms. He is intricately involved in their Creation myth, The status of gods, and the second biggest event in Faerunian history (just my opinion but The time of troubles ranks 2nd after Karsas' Folley). He was inserted retroactively, never existing in the realms before his first appearance, and they attempted to retroactively remove him with the 'nobody ever remembers him' BS Band-aid after he was vital to their cosmology. The fact is in any game, players hate having to play ignorant. Thats why I say, let us talk about Ao, let the local population say we are nuts and they have never heard of him (That book in Sestra is just an Abberation) but let the PC's debate him over the campfire without the high Lore requirement, just like I said, no clerics, and if you die, you go to the wall of the faithless.


Shad

[Shadoweaver]

Well I think its iffy to say people are still remembering Ao. I mean remember, a lot can happen in four years (following the decade the Ao cults lasted). Waukeen returned, Bane was reborn from Xvim, the City of Shade appears out of no where, Velsharoon becomes a god, Kelemvor becomes god of the dead, and Cyric has a mountain of stuff going on. Thats all in the last 4 years alone. So its easy to forget Ao with just that stuff going on.

So for instance after the Iraq war, my brain was so full I forgot about The Balkans war to make more room?

Shad

[lordmaple]

So for instance after the Iraq war, my brain was so full I forgot about The Balkans war to make more room?

Shad

Just curious- why do you sign off with Shad? Just a short version of SHadowweaver?

[Shadoweaver]

Just curious- why do you sign off with Shad? Just a short version of SHadowweaver?

Yup, just a short version of my full name, over the years (I've had this name for a long time, back before NWN1 even) it seemed to inevitably get shortened to Shad in casual conversation so I just go with it.

Shad

[Shadoweaver]

I want to congratulate whoever on the Dev staff made the book "Prayers of the Overgod" a 50k gold magic item. Is this meant to be the official threshold one must cross to know about Lord Ao? If so, you missed a tiny something, the book 'The war between Light and Darkness" (Sure to be a huge seller in the current situation) starts with "In the beginning, Lord Ao created the universe..." so you might want edit that out of the description.

Shad