Real meaning of CHA

[Scavar]

Ok this has been on my mind a lot recently on what Charisma really means to a character. Now I know this has come up in other topics countless times, and maybe this even a little repetitive, but I want to see in one collected area what people think.


Two me Charisma partially defines two things: How effective you are at talking to people and generally understanding human interaction((Wisdom helps with that part)), and how attractive you are overall.

I think the first one defines itself easily enough, the whole force of personality thing. You can give speeches, or seem impressive, so on and so forth.

It's the part that deal with looks that I think is usually seen incorrectly. You can have an incrediblly forceful personality, the most powerful Paladin to ever exist...and be ugly as sin. I mean honestly...thinking that everyone who is an effective speaker is good looking and vice versa is kind of silly. It's like saying every normal person is completely ugly.

I personally think a ten means you can be seen as attractive by most...with some fault or another, perhaps your voice is high pitched or something. I think that's normal...It also to me probably means you don't have too hard of a problem just speaking to people and understanding them generally((assuming your wisdom is also ten or higher, I think it being higher could affect this as well))

.......and it was just bugging me right now so I had to make a topic about it...

[Rhifox]

Cha is what you make of it, and varies from person to person. Someone with high Cha might be ugly, but very persuasive. Or vice versa.


One thing people don't tend to think about, though, is that Cha isn't just 'good' forceful personality. It's forceful personality overall. High cha and low wisdom means you're very likely to be a person that flies off the handle easily, (this is why sorcerers are often thought of to be explosive). Cha doesn't mean you're getting everyone to like you, in fact, having a high Cha might mean that you're making everyone hate you. Cha means you stand out, that isn't necessarily good. You might stand out in a bad way as well. Low Cha means you're drab, you're in the background, you don't know how to act in social situations and so on. It doesn't mean you're aggressive or insulting.

Cha is presence. Presence is global. If you play a character that is very aggressive, explosive, flies off the handle and insults people left and right, then that character likely should have somewhat high Cha, NOT low. Because they have a force of personality, it just isn't a good one.

To be cool but forceful, restrained and diplomatic, requires both high Cha and High Wisdom. Cha for the force of personality (and perhaps looks), Wisdom for the ability to know the right thing even if you don't want to and the Willpower to restrain yourself from lashing out when you might otherwise want to.

[Echelon13]

The sooner people begin realising that charisma does not equal looks will be a great day. Rhifox's explanation is a pretty solid one of the stat, and one I can get behind.

[Scavar]

That's the kind of insight I needed on it right there Rhifox, thanks.

I hadn't thought at all about the actual negative effects a high Cha and low Wis could have...and it also makes me feel better about how I rp my new replacement alt...yay

Anyone else, more thoughts are always welcome!

[Krya Flacongrace]

Rhifox's explanation is a pretty solid one of the stat, and one I can get behind.

yup

[Machiavelli]

I always viewed it as 'Presence'. That might come about through a combination of factors, and could have all sorts of varying effects (good or bad). Your character might be attractive and charming, that's one way of doing it. They might also be short, rumpled, and ugly as hell, but still draw the attention of those around them (that nasty little german with the half-moustache for instance).

Having presence doesn't mean you have to look nice, it just means that when you speak, people tend to listen (though looking good might be one of the reasons), and when you act they'll pay attention. Additionally, it doesn't mean that they'll agree with what you say or like what you do, just that they'll tend to notice.

I would distinguish here between force of personality, and forceful personality. I don't think that number two neccesarily requires much in the way of Charisma (though it depends whether people are simply shrugging it off, or paying attention and being forced to act, think in some meaningful way in response to the forcefulness).

Beyond that, I always figured that it's what you make of it, both in terms of its source, and effect.

Obligatory Disclaimer!
Only my opinion on the matter anyways, please note that the above is not intended as RP-policing, telling people how to play their characters etc...

[Wyvern76]

Has to be said.

I thought the people who play CHR 8 warrior women (and Men!) and claim IC that they look like a model are the people who claim that Charimsa is only ones presence and speaking ablity.

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Personally, I view Charisma to be the average of two stats. This may be made up or have backing in books, I dont' know. Charisma Presence and Charisma Beauty.... and as such the seperate can be say 2 points off from the average....

For example, take my humble halfling who shoud really consider her self lucky that I didn't make CHR a dump stat.

She's got CHR 12 (+1) modifier, which should mean slightly better than the norm.

She has a habbit of saying the wrong thing to people and getting bad reactions out of people (and DMs). So I think of her of having Charisma Presence: 10.

But I mean, she's cute as a button. So I play her as physically having Charisma Beauty: 14.

Just my view and that's all it is.

[Machiavelli]

Has to be said.

I thought the people who play CHR 8 warrior women (and Men!) and claim IC that they look like a model are the people who claim that Charimsa is only ones presence and speaking ablity.

---------------------------

Personally, I view Charisma to be the average of two stats. This may be made up or have backing in books, I dont' know. Charisma Presence and Charisma Beauty.... and as such the seperate can be say 2 points off from the average....

For example, take my humble halfling who shoud really consider her self lucky that I didn't make CHR a dump stat.

She's got CHR 12 (+1) modifier, which should mean slightly better than the norm.

She has a habbit of saying the wrong thing to people and getting bad reactions out of people (and DMs). So I think of her of having Charisma Presence: 10.

But I mean, she's cute as a button. So I play her as physically having Charisma Beauty: 14.

Just my view and that's all it is.

That's surely one way to do it, and I've applied similar ideas in the past, but if we go from real life examples then I don't think that always holds! There are, and have been in the past, some extrememly 'charismatic' individuals who were ugly as hell! Two words; Winston Churchill! Poor old winston would have had a physical beauty stat of somewhere around 2-4 while he was prime-minister, but I reckon his overall charisma was way more than the 4-6 allowed by your formula.

Not meant as an objection to your way of doing it, I just don't think the whole physical beauty thing really holds up as much of an indicator, even though it can be a legitimate component.

[Wyvern76]

That's surely one way to do it, and I've applied similar ideas in the past, but if we go from real life examples then I don't think that always holds!.

Only because we can't trust players and need to keep them in shackles, er.. I mean reason.

[Krya Flacongrace]

There are, and have been in the past, some extrememly 'charismatic' individuals who were ugly as hell! Two words; Winston Churchill!

Oi leave poor old Winston alone... Every Female German Spy wanted his body!

Personally, I view Charisma to be the average of two stats. This may be made up or have backing in books, I dont' know. Charisma Presence and Charisma Beauty.... and as such the seperate can be say 2 points off from the average....

I can understand that... But how would that work for a PC that has Charisma as the primary stat...

Do they continue to get better looking for example?
Or is it thier persona that increases?

Dont brow beat me, Im asking out of curiosity and not picking it apart...

[Machiavelli]

Oi leave poor old Winston alone... Every Female German Spy wanted his body!

Nobody's denying that Winston was a sex-machine to the intelligence gatherers of the other side (though he probably couldn't have performed anyhow, what with all the Brandy and Amphetamines), but he did look like a bloated mutant-baby, and he was hugely charismatic!

[GodBeastX]

Riiiight... this topic has come up so many times I think there's enough info on it all over. Do some research ^_^