confused

[Xanderleo]

Well, do I ever feel retarded when it comes to rules. :P
And 4th Edition is coming next may *tears*

Well, it's certainly not like the rules are simple.

But at least 3rd edition scrapped THACO (to hit AC 0) and counter-intuitive armor class numbers.

[ipsissimus]

you better earn those stripes then.

[Blue_Wyrm]

The max dex bonus for armor is soley for determining your dexterity bonus to AC, (unless of course NWN2 borked the rules concerning it) and has absolutley no effect on your reflex save or your attack bonus. It does, naturally, have a negative impact on skills due to armor check penalty.

Well, do I ever feel retarded when it comes to rules. :P
And 4th Edition is coming next may *tears*

[Fajitaduke]

Yeah, that's where I'm headed. I continue to use Val Kilmer's portrayal of Doc Holiday as the template for this character. In a 1v1 duel, he's a force to be feared, and he's a valuable addition to any party. But he's never going to walk into the middle of the river and take down Curly Bill and and 6 of his buddies in one swoop, ala Kurt Russel as Wyatt Earp.

[Xanderleo]

The max dex bonus for armor is soley for determining your dexterity bonus to AC, (unless of course NWN2 borked the rules concerning it) and has absolutely no effect on your reflex save or your attack bonus. It does, naturally, have a negative impact on skills due to armor check penalty.

[Blue_Wyrm]

Thank ThePaganKing, you explained my point much better than I did.
Only thing though I wouldn't advise is wearing heavy armor at lower levels, because a dex fighter uses his dexterity to hit (weapon finesse) and the Max Dex Bonus of plate will sink your attack bonuses into the 125th Layer of the Abyss. >_>

[ThePaganKing]

I would suggest that you use a shield (if you can) and a weapon the first couple levels, which will help vs. those arrows. I would also use the heaviest armor you can until you get to higher levels, especially if you are not going to use parry much initially. Also, use a bow to try and string out the spawns, so that you aren't fighting the goblin fighter and also getting hit with arrows at the same time.

The best fix though, is to join a party. The party gives you three big advantages:
1. Great RP and fun because you are interacting while you fight (the best)
2. Have buddies that can share the damage and help with healing
3. If you have 3 or more in your party, you get a 30 percent XP bonus and can tackle tougher critters that give more xp.

I suggest you play your character the way you want (your character RP) and if that way makes you a bit weaker, find a party. I always just play my character the way I envisioned him. I have a two weapon fighter and sometimes he would hit a lot more and have a better AC by just using one weapon and a shield, but that is not how he fights, so I stick with my character RP.

[Blue_Wyrm]

Well coming from someone who took the same way that you're currenly taking, you should just get that "get high AC" out of your head and toss it in the ditch as soon as you can have a +20ish Parry modifier. Look around for Parry items, take the Two-Weapon Defense feats and Skill Focus (Parry). You'll soon be carrying 2 to 3 stacks of Cure potions at all times, and you probably will drink them all in a challenging dungeon run after level 6 or so, but whatever, you'll enjoy it if you like going for the less-trodden path.

Since you took the dexterity way, you have to accept that you'll never have really high AC compared to plate tanks, but you can laugh it off on Parry Mode. The name "Duelist" is pretty accurate, that's what you'll be good at, and you'll be doomed alone against groups or archers until you reach pretty high levels. Duelist is a flavour class mostly, with a few interesting quirks such as self-haste and insane one-on-one melee defense, but otherwise just as unpopular as Harper Scout despite their good sides and RP possibilities on paper.

Just never forget that as long as you have companions, whether you are good or evil by nature, the relative strenght of your own character will never weigh you down. Only your money purse will be lighter, and even then, sometimes I think Roger is richer than many high-level characters since he never buys any armor. No, no, not because of any.. er illicit activities. >_>

[Fajitaduke]

Thanks for the tip on the shop items, that could make a huge difference for me, as my rolls are frequently within a point or two being able to make a riposte (sp?) attack.

I was partied up with a few people and using armor at level 3, and I function well enough as a fighter. When I played around with the parry skill and no armor it was late in the evening and I didn't want to party up and then immediately log off to go to bed, but I suspect I would do fine in a group.

[Xanderleo]

Hmmm. Sounds like the post you quoted from the bioware forums is the case.

~

As for the parry and armor. I believe the skill is impacted by the armor check penalty, so it depends on the light armor. But regardless, the skill should still be well enough offset by your ranks, ability modifier, and any related feats.

There are some items that give a plus to the parry skill as well. Check the shops for them, that should help even more. And congrats on settling on your main character! Look forward to seeing him in game

Edit: Oh and as far as tactics for multiple enemies, try and use the landscape to choke them off or pull only one or two at a time. Of course the better, and intended course of action would be to party up with one or more people.

[Fajitaduke]

I'll look into it when I get a chance; no idea when I'll get home tonight, though.

I'll try to get it figured out before I delete the character (was one of a few test characters for trying out the server before I rolled up my permanent one).

Ok, so I played around with this a little last night and have determined it *is* shield related. The message in the text box is *parried*. I tried it with two different characters with different skills sets, with and without shields, and the shield made the difference.

I can't say what triggers the parry, since it occurs a few times within a fight, but it almost always occurs with respect to the first arrow that would have hit.

Back to the dex-based topic, I have created my permanent character now, who is a dex-based fighter (current Dex = 17 at level 4). I've noticed that medium/heavy armor has a negative impact on parry. Obviously by the time I'm able to take duelist class at level 8 I'll go without any armor.

In the meantime, have a question - does light armor negatively impact parry as well? If so, does the tradeoff seem worth it?

At level 4 my parry skill with modifiers is 10. This allows me to fight relatively well against a single spittlefist defender, but I'm pwned by archers due to my lower AC and inability to parry the arrows, and when I engage more than one enemy due to the rapid accumulation of penalty modifiers for multiple parries per turn.

What is the best approach to take between level 4-8 to be most effective in combat? At level 3 I ignored parry and wore the best armor I could that allowed my max dex AX bonus, with the intent to move slowly towards lighter and then no armor.

Thanks.

[Scavar]

A lot of this stuff seems to be based in One on One. A lot of what's considered good or bad in Versus fights goes out the window in actual battles, especially if you are talking NPCs vs PC, rather then just PCs vs PCs.

In either case, I'd rather have a Con fighter.

[Averdan]

I guess that's where Balance comes into play, fighters can beat rogues (Sometimes), Wizards can beat fighters (Sometimes), and rogues can beat wizards (Sometimes).

Actually its more the other way around. rogues beat fighters as long as they have HIPS or the hide function would finally work fine. Fighter beat wizards if wizards can't buff up.. one succssfull knockdown and wizard is dead... sooner or later. and wizards are the only class that can kill rogues that have HIPS.... one high DC confusion spell???

Now to dex topic. DEX for a fighter build only pays off if you can have more dex bonus than 9. because than you get 9 to your ac as if you would be wearing a heavy plate armour with 8 ac plus one from dex. the additional bonus ac from any magical armour being set the same... so if you say you have a fighter with full plate (+8AC) and 12 dex (+1AC) and say an armor with +3 you will have less than a dex based fighter with 30 dex (+10AC) and a piece of robe +3....

Hoep this was understandable... of course this is only the case if you play in the epics and so on sundren not really possible in the meantime.

Also what one should not forget is crusiality of uncanny dodge... any one that attacks you out of nowhere can rip your head off pretty fast if you are dex based and do not have uncanny dodge...

That is really important for those that think monks are such great AC tanks. all their bonus of dex in the their ac is lost ones attacked unaware... and correct me if I am wrong but in NWN1 this also happened when you fought one person in front of you... you have full ac against him.... and one person behind you... all dex bonus gone...


A monk should thus always try to get uncanny dodge somehow or go wisdom based and use zen archery

[GodBeastX]

Aside from Deminicus, every fight I saw Lyonette in, she won. She was best against dex-based fighters who usually built themselves around lots of quick light damage but had smaller ABs and thus couldn't hit as good, and the fact that their crits rarely did all that much damage. Lyonette was mainly weaker against single-weapon fighters, especially weapon masters like Ember, where her AC didn't matter due to how high the crits could get.

I guess that's where Balance comes into play, fighters can beat rogues (Sometimes), Wizards can beat fighters (Sometimes), and rogues can beat wizards (Sometimes).

[Rhifox]

Every fight I saw Lyonette in, she lost I mean, a scythe weapon master can crit for over 200 depending on build. If he gets you on first hit, what's the point of all that AC?

Aside from Deminicus, every fight I saw Lyonette in, she won. She was best against dex-based fighters who usually built themselves around lots of quick light damage but had smaller ABs and thus couldn't hit as good, and the fact that their crits rarely did all that much damage. Lyonette was mainly weaker against single-weapon fighters, especially weapon masters like Ember, where her AC didn't matter due to how high the crits could get.