Please respect Dice rolls and Social Skills

[GodBeastX]

If someone rolls Diplomacy, Taunt, Bluff, Intimidate, as part of RP, please respect the rolls. There is nothing to say how you should react. Intimidation does not mean you scare someone off. Even scared soldiers in war still fight on, other times they turn and run for the hills. I am asking that players respect something people spend points into instead of power building when RPing out situations.

And also, Dice rolls are not replacements for RP. Do not simply roll diplomacy without trying to RP out the diplomatic approach.

[Ichbin]

I agree, nothings more annoying than someone being a sore loser to a good diplo/bluff/ or intimidate roll. Although it is rough sometimes for unsocial ppl to both make a good speech and roll it.
I personally dont have this prob, but a friend of mine that I PnP w/ isnt very social and is quit shy. He loves playing the big talkers though, so we begrudge his attempts at talking down someone and just let im' have his diplomacy roll.
Getting back to the topic, sometimes the reciever will just leave, or dismiss the fact you did anything, grrr.

[GodBeastX]

DMs get equally frustrated

[Ethereal Edge]

The problem is that Neverwinter Nights II doesn't have a sense motive roll. I keep in mind when I roll any statistic, skill, or ability that doesn't have a direct counter that I shouldn't expect any reaction... because there can't be a counter roll to my own. Still, I myself will usually gauge a roll such as diplomacy, intimidate, etc. and react to it as is appropriate.

[GodBeastX]

To me it's not about a DC when someone roll Intimidate. If someone rolls intimidate and has a 30 modifier, he's a pretty scary individual. If he has a 30 modifier to diplomacy, he likely could negotiate a minotaur into handing him his axe.

I tend to let counters be the skill, or will saves, depending on the situation. For example, Someone intimidating someone who has alot of intimidate doesn't seem to make sense. It's like two wolves showing their fangs at each other, they're both likely to do that for awhile, neither backing down. High will might be "I want to pee my pants right now, but I have to do what I have to do".

And people can figure that out without a direct DC. "I have a 15 intimidate" "Alright, I got a 12 Will save"

*Joseph the Big Orc growls at james.*

*James swallows hard but walks by the big Orc Anyway, keeping an eye out for trouble*

That's fine with me, because he respected the fact the orc is scary, the orc may have been trying to scare him off, but some people are resistant. I don't expect paladins to be scared at all.

Fearlessness is a big problem in PW with me too since we're discussing it. Giant demon appears and everyone acts like it's just another day in the life of the world. Let's show a bit of realism in reactions to things. I shudder to think how players would react to an Ancient Red Dragon staring them in the eyes.

[Votta]

If that happens don't call it a worm. They dont like that.

[Ichbin]

Fearlessness is a big problem in PW with me too since we're discussing it. Giant demon appears and everyone acts like it's just another day in the life of the world. Let's show a bit of realism in reactions to things. I shudder to think how players would react to an Ancient Red Dragon staring them in the eyes.

My bard flipped out over the undead skeleton waltzing into the bar. Some ppl wondered why, so my inner dialog was "Im a friggin guy who plays the flute and just got here on a ship! Maybe if I played a trumpet I would have more ballz... no wait, symbols, coz I can use em as shields!"

... Im sry you had to read that.

[Ethereal Edge]

Point taken about reacting to rolls, I suppose. It's not a bad idea to react to them, I wasn't saying that, I was just saying that there's no real opposing roll you can throw for it. That's all. *Shrug* it can lead to problems sometimes.

[pook]

I've only been playing here a short while, but I'm quite confused on how this dice rolling should really fit into this type of game. I've played PnP before, so yes I understand where dice rolling comes from, but I don't understand it in this context. Let me give an example;

I walk along the road and come across a couple of thugs.
Thugs yell at me, "better get runnin before I beat you down", then roll an intimidate check with me as the target. The roll says 11.

This is where I'm confused. Am I supposed to be intimidated or not? Who/what defines whether or not 11 is high enough to intimidate me?
There doesn't appear to be any message that indicates success or failure and without that indictaion, I don't see the point of the dice roll. I might as well just decide if I'm intimidated by the text of the conversation and what I can surmise by the look of the individual(s) and other factors of the situation.
I do see the MOD portion, which may say 4 or something. OK so this person put 4 into that skill. Is 4 enough to matter to me? Maybe my char is not as easily intimidated as others, maybe more so.

I am asking that players respect something people spend points into instead of power building when RPing out situations.

I agree 100% with the statement above. I just don't see how the implimention of the dice rolling on this server accomplishes it.

sometimes the reciever will just leave, or dismiss the fact you did anything, grrr.

To me, the possible confusion I've stated earlier (roller may think they've intimiated someone, while the recipient doesnt feel the roll is high enough) could lead to the reciever just leaving or dismissing the roll. Being that is their response to what was said or done.

Lastly, there was one situation where a player came up and said something and did a roll and I did ignore it. That is not something I would regularly do, but a full explanation of that would string out this already overly long post. So, I guess I'll leave that for another time.

The point of this post is, if anyone really understands what I'm saying about the vaugeness of these rolls, maybe they can explain to me a good way to play it. I've tried read through all the rules and such on the boards and I don't remember coming across anything with that kind of detail. Enlighten me if you can please.

[pook]

Well it looks like alot of answers appeared in the time it took me to write my post.

[Votta]

Honestly I dont use dice rolls for social interaction. At least with Parn its just the way he is. He doesn't actually get the meaning behind what or how people say things. For example if somebody is threatening him most likely his reply would be something about them being rude and and maybe them needing a hug more from their mother growing up. Please keep in mind that Parn was originally a kender from dragonlance and they are immune to fear.
Now some may think that it takes away from their characters abilities when interacting with me but, without giving to much away about Parn, there are other ways of getting the results you are looking for.

[GodBeastX]

The rule is, there are no rules. There's no perfect way to handle social rolls. To me rolls are sort of an reaffirmation of the activity. I'm not going to hammer out rules and say "This is how it should be!" simply because, as stated, the natural counter doesn't exist, but I think we all know when we simply ignore something just so we don't "lose".

If someone rolls intimidate and gets 11, what does that mean to you? You take it as you wish, but respect their attempt is all I'm saying. If you think 11 doesn't mean anything to your character, that's up to you. Maybe a quick "(( 11 isn't much, but we'll see how this plays out" just so people don't feel like they rolled for nothing.

To me I take an 11 like this. If it's 1d20 + 0 = 11 then to me it's just some guy on the street trying to talk big when he has signs of being weak. If it's 1d20 + 10 = 11. The guy came off as scary, but his voice cracked in the middle, making him seem less scary at that moment or something. I look at modifiers more than I look at the actual dice when it comes to skill rolls on PW, but that is me.

You could also try some creativity in your reactions too. It's not always a win/lose, maybe find a way you both win. I like to sometimes draw out humor in things.

I remember once one of my characters was intimidated by a man who also held up his sword at my character. My character starts to run before looking where it was going and ran into a tree. I got alot of OOC lols on that one. Helps to lighten the mood of the play at times.

I just want people to take the skills into account when making actions. Don't feel that the roll forces you into a position, think of it as a challenge to your RP skill. "What can I do with this being added to the play?" It's all tools for use, not weapons for winning.

[GodBeastX]

Please keep in mind that Parn was originally a kender from dragonlance and they are immune to fear.

Unless you have some feat that makes you immune to fear, you're not immune to fear.

[Paerin]

Is it possible for someone to create a chart of skills and counter skills for the NWN2 rolls we have available. That way I would have a better idea of what I should be rolling to match it.

Like you said above I generally roll the same skill against or make an appropriate stat save. Personally my warriors will is like -150, but I wouldn't consider him being easily intimidated because he is strong and dumb. So in that case I wouldn't roll a will save against it, because he was probably too stupid to respect the tone of whoever was intimidating him.

Unfortunately the dice in the game are kind of abstract, so you need to just play it out and have fun with it. People getting pissed that I didn't react to a roll the way they wanted me to are just as annoying as people who ignore the roll in the first place.

I tend to make a lot of rolls myself just to help decide how I should proceed (listen and spot checks) for hearing and noticing things. I tend to pick a magic number before the current adventure as my cutoff point for noticing/not noticing things and just roll away as I feel necessary. I don't expect others to really pay attention to those, but they do guide my character in those situations.

[Clutch]

*Shrugs* Rolling a social skill doesn't dictate how the other person is forced to react in my opinion. It only gives the other person a fair idea in which context he/she CAN respond, if he/she is willing to accept/respect the roll.

For instance, a few hours ago I had this:

<Drow female> I believe I do not have much of my race's traits..
<Darren> *shrugs* I have little problem with the drow *Bluff roll: 13, Modifier 12. ( means I threw a 1 ).*
<Drow Female> Hmpf..

She could have believed me, but my bluff roll indicated Darren was easy to see through on this one. And so she did, I liked it

Other replies to my roll could have been:
<Drow> I'm not sure you mean it.. but I appreciate your words.
or
<Drow> Are you kidding me ?
or
<Drow> Yes, you sound very convincing *sarcasm*
or
<Drow> ....

Just to give a few examples.

Some rolls could be counter rolled if you wish but personally I think that takes alot of time and removes some freedom of playing around. I like the idea the opposite player has the freedom to respond fitting his or her character rather then being stuck to a roll. I mean.. a human won't scare a half-orc that quickly with just his looks. But when the halforc throws 1 he suddenly is frightened like a mouse.. bit odd aye ? I could imagine the halforc being scared when the human has a reputation, something that would fear that half-orc character. But that's totally relation wise.