Bluff, Diplomacy, And Intimidate

[undeadsteak]

Ive seen lots of people use this. I remember GBX posted something that he said would be the official thing for people to use when rolling bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate. Im not sure where to find it though.. What exactly is it? I see lots of people using will for bluff, though i use d20+ wisdom modifier + level. And for intimidate its a will save that i use.. I'd love to know whats official though.

[Echelon13]

Due to the lack of the 'Sense Motive' skill, a wisdom roll will do good enough when going up against bluffing or diplomatic attempts. Will, as you do, is also fine against intimidation.

[Ithildin]

The problem with skills like that is they end up unbeatable later on, when someone has 20 or so persuade and get to roll a 1d20 on top of that allowing for up to 40 theres no way anyones will saves or wisdom will save against it. Those types of skills are really best saved for when dealing with npcs, but things like rolling bluff, intimidate and such is a good way to show what your trying to do.

[Echelon13]

Natural 1 and Natural 20 rules still apply, however.

[Ithildin]

So a person with 4 will (rogue around 15 or so) will only beable to save against being persuaded or bluffed (two skills they are good at doing) with a 20?

[Echelon13]

For the purposes of beating epic high social-skill rolls, they do in this case.

[undeadsteak]

Hmm, but i thought you also added you Level, like, a level 20 making a check, would add +20 to his wisdom modifier and d20 roll.

[Ithildin]

Sorry but my characters aren't going to be persuaded to do something that would be ooc for him because he rolled a 1 against something he needed a 20 to beat, makes no sense that way.

[Echelon13]

Note that I did not say that these are the rules everyone must abide by; you can use your own if you wish. But ensure that the other party/parties are aware of what's going on.

[Ithildin]

Oh I'll make it clear if a problem comes up was just pointing out that my character wouldn't suddenly do something completely ooc like renounce their god simply because they failed a will against a persuade or something

[nutranurse]

Sorry but my characters aren't going to be persuaded to do something that would be ooc for him because he rolled a 1 against something he needed a 20 to beat, makes no sense that way.

Use common sense in the matter:
I.E. Paladins cannot be threatened as they are immune to fear at one point. But if someone threatens someone else said Paladin fears for the other persons life.
I.E(2) Zelivean exclaims to Rook that she is a half-dragon because of her magical abilities. Zel rolls a rather unfortunate 4 and Rook a 16. Sure Rook tells Zel that she is lying, but Rook (a person far from being knowledgeable about magic) has a seed of doubt planted in her mind because of the off-chance that Zel is not lying and the simple fact that Rook is Rook (Any who has RP'd with Rook can explain what that means)

The point is, do not simply go with the dice rolls. We roleplay, not rollplay. Use the dice rolls as guidelines for what to RP, and RP in context of your character. But do not decide OCC that if they were to RP how their character would react to be not fun or beneficial that you will give them a personality lapse and do something completely out-of-character for said character. That is just Metagaming, and none likes a Metagamer.

Just remember this: Real life is not a basket filled with the sweetest fruits readily waiting to be taken; it is a basket layered with shit and razor blades soaked in disappointments. The treats are only at the bottom and you have to go through some hardships to get to them.
So why should the life of your character be any different?

[Echelon13]

There are some things which persuade, bluff and diplomacy can never do. If a character fervently believes in something (and I mean really believes in something ? such as a paladin and their deity), even a failed save won't sway them from that path. Ever.
Magic, however, is a different story; but that's not the topic.

Simpler things are do-able, whereas things which a character will not waver to will either be impossible to overcome or will require a long, long time slowly hacking away at that character's defense; planting evidence and continuing to sew the seed of doubt into their mind.

A roll of one or a roll of twenty is not the be-all and end-all.

[nutranurse]

Hence why I said RP the roll in context of the character

[Scourn]

Natural 1 and Natural 20 rules still apply, however.

They do? Is that the ruleing for here? I know theres a section in the players hand book saying theres no natural 1's or 20's for skills.

[Echelon13]

Note that I did not say that these are the rules everyone must abide by; you can use your own if you wish. But ensure that the other party/parties are aware of what's going on.

Because some people apparently missed it.