The Line Between Brave and Stupid.

[Satoshi]

I'm come to recognize a re-occuring theme in several events that end with rather nasty results, and may leave players with either an upsetting feeling, or outright bitching. We, the DMs, spend time idealizing reasonable (or even hard) events to challenge and elicit emotional responses and build character (allow them to grow, change, and evolve) for the playerbase. You'll often see that these events, for example the most recent Eye of Fear and Flame for example (kudos to Echelon with the implimention of an epic undead horror, by the way), have a couple options:

1.) Fight.
This option is assessable with a few options: have the most wordly, or experienced players in the group attempt to see if they can gauge their chances of survival (ask the DM if you can roll Lore or Appraise checks to gather such information: you'll see that if you want to do things outside of the norm, we're generally accomidating and even encouraging of these brain-using activities).

2.) Flee
This is a hell of an option if the outcome of one seems bleak. We'll (almost) always allow this method of discretion. Falling back to re-group sometimes simply in not the best way to survive. Burying yourself in the nearest dark hole, and waiting out the storm is a great survival tactic.

3.) Submit
If your character has a low charisma (and is easily influenced), if they are a coward afraid of death, if they are not-so-good inclined... submit to the will of your captor/tormentor/current superior's will. This may seem disgraceful, even humilitating, but I promise - promise that this will get you a great, flavourful roleplaying experience. And, just because you submit now, doesn't mean you can't take revenge later.

4.) Talk
This is the most underused option, in my opinion. Sometimes the bad guys want to monologue, in the vein of true, arrogant, show-offy villains. Sometimes, the 'bad guys' aren't so rotten to the core to be beyond reason. You're not always dealing with inhuman monsters without a heart or soul (though devils and demons will always be an exception to this rule), and the DM likely treats each ancounter as such. Simply by socially interacting (rather than rushing to the game mechanics of combat), you can breath life into a situation, turn it in unexpected directions, or even come out with a new outlook on the overall picture. Seemingly random events are often tied to a larger tapestry. Then again, not every encounter is going to be a deep lesson on philosophy and life, either.

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Seriously, people. Don't let us hold you by the had: take the initiative to make things as fun as they could be, rather than complacently taking a backseat to your roles as the REAL heroes! The NPCs can't do all the work, and not everyone is the same hero as another. Make your character stand out, and we'll work with you to bring the setting to life.

[Mattachine]

I remember when the eye of fear and flame was a third-string undead thing from the 1st edition Fiend Folio. *tee-hee*

[GodBeastX]

Of course if you're certain people, like say a Paladin, the options change. As a paladin, however, the list of rules change.

1) You should be willing to sacrifice your life to save others. In fact, the paladin path IS a sacrifice. So you've already sworn that. The sacrifice may not always be "Fight it and die!" It might be simply going "Take me instead!"

2) Fearless does not mean stupid. Obviously if you run up to a red dragon and poke his big toe, he's going to kill you. If the Red Dragon is threatening the city, you need to be alive to think of an alternate way of dealing with it.

Non Paladin Additions:

1) Not everything to fix a problem is always available to you where you stand. It may take many sessions to end an evil. You look for resolution, but I try, personally, to leave cliffhangers if I plan to continue later. Or at least tell players.


My DM Additions:

1) I've been pushing to give hints at how to solve problems. I would prefer characters really consider what they are capable of before acting, but my hopes tend to be for naught. Wizards don't scry, or detect magic and such. PAladins don't bother asking if something in front of them is evil. Nobody rolls spot and search. People loot bodies and don't assume there might be something on the body that the treasure generator didn't make. The list goes on.

My utopian world would be that players thought about their class and person more before acting. I have only seen one or two wizards that seemed to act like wizard. Once, I spawned a hellhound puppy and a wizard began studying it like a lab rat, excited that he had a specimin. This is how wizards tend to be. Scientists! I don't see that very often.

2) Overpowering evil. This has been a learning experience for myself. Given that players see evil, their IMMEDIATE reaction has tended toward "KILL IT!". They can know how powerful it is or not, but they still toss themselves in like lemmings. Often ignoring the subtle hints at how to deal with what is in front of them. These days I tend to make any hostility that could be percieved out of reach of the characters so they are not even tempted. For example:

Ghosts will flow through walls and out of range so players are forced to deal with them in other means. Evil will walk away before players can decide to attack. PLayers may even be caught by spells before the NPCs appear. This has been a WHOLE lot more effective, because players don't feel abused by the evil, and I can make plots that last longer than the lemmings (PLayers) rushing in and getting hacked up.

3) If you SUDDENLY want to attack. PLEEEEASE tell me. Sometimes I nerf NPCs for fights. Sometimes I didn't plan for them to fight and they have 8 hp. Sometimes I try to think of future outcomes and such.

4) Please remember, the stories I develope are there to entertain. I am hoping that players don't feel that hack and slash stories are entertaining. I have a few plots going, and a few in the works. Some with mystery, some with dilemas. Some simply seeing how characters will react to them. But always for YOUR enjoyment. I get enjoyment when you get enjoyment. If you have issues with anything I do in an event, constructively tell me what would help.

5) Please keep in mind, DMs are slower than players. We have to manage many NPCs in events. We have to think how to reply. We also have a buggy toolset. Please be patient if you don't get responses in timely fashion.

6) FInally, BE PREPARED TO ROLL! I looooooove to use skills. Spellcraft, Spot, LIsten, Search, Heal, Concentration, etc. LOVE IT! I tend to send tells after rolls to each individual who succeeds. Like if you roll survival for finding tracks, the persons who succeed will get tells about tracks. Others may get failure message or nothing if they already assumed they failed

And for Generally everyone:

Try to remember, this is a social game, and a community. This is not setup for you alone, it's setup for everyone. I, personally, get upset when players do things to limit other's expression or beat down other players. For example, Permadeath is left only to the DMs to hand out. When I see players doing things to TRY To get someone permakilled, I make it fail on principal alone.

My favored players are the ones who are always looking to bring enjoyment to the game, not realism. Realism is nice, but I don't play D&D to be realistic. I see alot of RP styles coming together, even for syntax on actions. I must say that players on sundren are brilliant. Some characters shoving their personalities down my throat wind up so enjoyable I can't help but reward them. I think going further into this is better written in an RP guide, but I'll conclude with this thought:

Even a farmer who picked up a sword and just became an average Adventurer can be the most entertaining character on the server by far, if the roleplayer is willing to express the character to everyone around them.

[Mylo]

Try to remember, this is a social game, and a community. This is not setup for you alone, it's setup for everyone.

+1

I totally agree!

[undeadsteak]

Well, when you see a big bad thing, and you don't know what the heck it is, you won't really know how powerful it is.. Like the Eye of Fear and Flame. All my char thought was it was a pretty dressed skeleton, That casted some moderately powerful spells.



And fleeing, I agree with, but alot of people who have good friends stuck with the bad guy, usually would come back to save them. , and GBX, players are still allowed to perma-death their own chars right? Or if the other player wants perma-death against your char.

[GodBeastX]

Well, when you see a big bad thing, and you don't know what the heck it is, you won't really know how powerful it is.. Like the Eye of Fear and Flame. All my char thought was it was a pretty dressed skeleton, That casted some moderately powerful spells.



And fleeing, I agree with, but alot of people who have good friends stuck with the bad guy, usually would come back to save them. , and GBX, players are still allowed to perma-death their own chars right? Or if the other player wants perma-death against your char.

I mean seeking to permakill someone, not seeking justice and good outcome. There's a difference. Stop evil, yes. But don't try to get the DMs to just kill off players because you know their alignment is evil. That's not a reason.

And you can always kill yourself.

[Kaybrie]

Fearless does not mean stupid. Obviously if you run up to a red dragon and poke his big toe, he's going to kill you. If the Red Dragon is threatening the city, you need to be alive to think of an alternate way of dealing with it.

I agree with everything except for this, well partially anyways... Like you said the paladin is a path of sacrifice... Not only that, but they are very decisive, there is no gray area to them. They think of what they can do right then and there to do good. If their life coming to and violent and horrible end means that they can save someone else, then they will step up in a heartbeat to fight against the red dragon. Even if it means their own death, it's part of what I like so much about Paladins.

[GodBeastX]

I agree with everything except for this, well partially anyways... Like you said the paladin is a path of sacrifice... Not only that, but they are very decisive, there is no gray area to them. They think of what they can do right then and there to do good. If their life coming to and violent and horrible end means that they can save someone else, then they will step up in a heartbeat to fight against the red dragon. Even if it means their own death, it's part of what I like so much about Paladins.

By your description, you basically agreed with me. He knows he can't win, there's no one in immediate danger near him. He's looking at a red dragon tell him his plans. Rushing in to get popped like a pimple is just needlessly throwing away your life.

Think about paladins of the Red Knight, who are told to think of tactics and preplan their actions and such. I doubt that is consider very much tactics to have a dragon bellow fire on you then attack a village without warning. Warning the town is a much better plan and will save many more people. You see what I'm saying?

So yes, I stand by my statement.

Obviously the paladin is not afraid to face the dragon. However, a paladin is not going to engage in worthless fighting.

[Kaybrie]

Yeah, I was just pointing out an large exception to your description of them above, I readily agree with what you've said... It's just that Paladins should always put their lives on the line if it means they can even possibly save another persons life. (Yes, this includes peasants, in a Paladins eyes all men, women and saints are created as equals... As they're essentially saints in themselves... Or are supposed to act like it anyways.)

[GodBeastX]

Oh yeah, I agree with that.