Where oh where has my character gone...?

[reemixx]

Well, I got a lovely surprise when I logged in this evening... My beloved character, whom I've played since joining the server quite a few months ago, had disappeared.

Since then I've heard the vault has been wiped to make everyone equal when implementing the new systems.

Well, guys... I love Sundren. The scripting is great, the design is great, the RPing is great.... the way things are handled, not so great.

To be totally honest, I'm more than slightly frustrated at all the changes Sundren keeps going through. The team initially agreed that a vault wipe wasn't needed after the server was brought back again after its little break. You've since changed your minds yet again, and there was no warning and no discussion.

I'm not a grinder and I don't care about levels. But I am a casual player, and to get even that far with the money I had, items I collected, and custom clothes that I got approved for my character to wear - it's really just a kick in the head to have her deleted, especially after it was publicly announced a vault wipe wasn't going to go ahead.

I've had enough of it all, I'm tired of starting from scratch, and no doubt one of the team members will reply with all the expected stuff like it was necessary to level the playing field and implement the new systems, etc... I totally get that. I do. But perhaps you guys should just decide on something and stick with it for once, 'cause it's the players who are getting screwed around. You're all trying to hard and doing a really good job at creating this persistent world, and it's beautiful and amazing and beats all the others, hands down, in its scripting and design, but what's the point if you're constantly changing it?

I'd happily sacrifice a bit of the polish for a little bit of consistency. It's why I feel the other servers are doing better than Sundren was before, and currently is now. They're not as nice but you can always be sure everything is the way you left it.

At the moment, I can't find a reason to re-create my character. What's the point when she might just get wiped again? To roleplay, you might say? All well and good, but there's no-one even around at the moment, and wiping the vault sure ain't giving them a reason to stick around.

So what's the deal, what's going on, and are you guys going to decide on something and stick with it, or just going to change your minds yet again?

[Echelon13]

Initially there was going to be a wipe, and it did come to pass, but the playerbase didn't like this and asked for the vault to be restored. Against the better judgement of the team at that time, it was.

Unfortunately, major balancing issues and the like came up, so we were forced to perform the wipe as planned. It's something we would have avoided if we could, but we had to do it anyway.

This type of thing happens on occasion. Just remember that we're still building the world ? and the server ? and these things may be necessary in order to maintain server stability and a level playing field for the players.

[solexwolf]

So'k it will be fun to start fresh

[Dragoncleric]

Oi, trust me reemixx. I'm not fond of wipes myself.
I'm just like you, a casual player, and I get very attached to my single character.
But, this is a 'beta'. I've come to accept the wipes now...finally. It's hard going from level 8 with items Sundren (used) to have, back to 3 with nothing.
But, I found it as a new chance to figure out the final class I want to play at least, and tried a new race. Heck I'm even thinking of applying for an ECL one if we get wiped again.

Stick with it. The GM's and staff here are really great people. (yeah yeah my nose is brown now) If you (and they) can find the time to chat, you might find one or two of them may go the extra mile to make you feel welcome again.

Sundren is not finsihed, not by a long shot. It's only been nearly a year, and there's still heaps to do. And just imagine what will happen when the expansion comes out. Most of what they deal with is at Obsidion's end (requiring patches from them) and these people are volunterring thier own time to figure it out.

Anywho: My point. Stick with it. No one enjoys wipes, especially those of us who hate grinding for xp an don't have the time. If you're feeling let down, just know you're not alone, but we'll help you through it.

[Vichtor]

To be totally honest, I'm more than slightly frustrated at all the changes Sundren keeps going through. The team initially agreed that a vault wipe wasn't needed after the server was brought back again after its little break. You've since changed your minds yet again, and there was no warning and no discussion.

Just wanted to point out there was a warning, and a two-day-long discussion on this very topic. It was looked at objectively, then action was taken. Here's a Link so you can review it: http://www.sundren.org/forum//showthread.php?t=4270

[Stratigo]

Bah the wipe isn't that bad. Sure we lost some stuff, but I'll be honest, there seems to be more RP going on now then there was before it.

The only thing for me is that a new character transitions more then an old one and I crash like mad since my computer got busted. And not simple crashes. I have to restart my computer every 3 or 4 transitions.

[bombas238]

I am going to have to agree with Reemixx on this one.

It's not so much the character wipe, it's all the constant junk that keeps happening. I understand that this is a Beta server and that all the changes are meant to help/improve conditions.

I would like to tell Sundren staff that between updates, promises, bug fixes, scripting, and all this stuff you guys have going on... I honestly feel like you guys simply lose track of the most important part of your world: the players.

Bottom line, I've pretty much stopped playing because the content is the same as it has been for *months* (Fargana has to easily be of the first dozen players made), there are no DMs ever on, and if they are, odds are it's either GBX or Sal and they ignore players because they are testing stuff out.

I'll play on Sundren, new character and all (I loved Farg by the way, I am glad I got to export her in time), but only when the server settles down and finally starts throwing fun my way without me having to fear getting screwed over again.

[Venture]

I dont know if "screwed over" is the right term. yeah it sucks losing characters, but it is a game, and it is someone else's server. They mainly pay for save for some donations, and invest countless hours trying to make us happy. Sure I've been playing on this server for 8 months and been involved with a DM led what not twice or thrice, I cant personally complain too much because they are trying to make my free gaming experience more enjoyable. Rebuild your favorite character and enjoy the fact that there are actually a handful of people on the server, and that most of them are in a party and most likely willing to have you join up with them.

[Saulus]

I am going to have to agree with Reemixx on this one.

It's not so much the character wipe, it's all the constant junk that keeps happening. I understand that this is a Beta server and that all the changes are meant to help/improve conditions.

I would like to tell Sundren staff that between updates, promises, bug fixes, scripting, and all this stuff you guys have going on... I honestly feel like you guys simply lose track of the most important part of your world: the players.

Bottom line, I've pretty much stopped playing because the content is the same as it has been for *months* (Fargana has to easily be of the first dozen players made), there are no DMs ever on, and if they are, odds are it's either GBX or Sal and they ignore players because they are testing stuff out.

I'll play on Sundren, new character and all (I loved Farg by the way, I am glad I got to export her in time), but only when the server settles down and finally starts throwing fun my way without me having to fear getting screwed over again.

That's borderline flaming. Watch it.

[GodBeastX]

I personally won't make any promises, or tell any plans, or do my utmost to work on anything.

I will say something very simple.

I honestly feel like you guys simply lose track of the most important part of your world: the players.

Why the hell else would somebody dedicate their free time after working 50 hours a week and actually spend tons of freetime to develope on something unpaid completely? How can you even consider for a fact we're sitting here going "Screw the players, let's make this world for the developers, because we're getting SOOO much fun out of wading through lines of C++ and NWNScript as well as shops and placeables. Giving up our costly bandwidth despite the packet flooding bugs that eat it."

Seriously, these sort of statements is what kills my motivation to do anything for PW's or even free software. Let me just do some work for you guys out of my spare time that could be spent elsewhere, just to have it spit on from players.

Do you know what AVL Trees are, Binary Maps, probability range and equations? Do you know how to interface with MySQL API, create NWNX plugins, make simple grid controls in Window's GUI? I can't tell you how many technologies went into the ability to pick up the piece of shit loot that people leave around the ground. This is stuff that I could probably be working right now on Warhammer Online for writing and every loot picked up I'd get a pat on the back for the complexity of it. To be able to randomly select a single object out of 4 billion possibilities in only a couple operations with dynamic probabilities? Seriously?

Am I the one running around collecting this loot or are the players? Am I the one worried about how efficient the server is or are the players? Am I the one who cares how much exp I'm getting per kill or are the players? Do I care if there's a quest system or not or do the players? New dungeons, etc etc. So then the question becomes, how can anyone say any effort I put into this game isn't for the players alone? My wife asks me every day why I bother to work on stuff like this for people who aren't paying me. That simple sentence you speak betrays all the effort I put in.

The only reason I keep working on Sundren is because I know that all the players don't share your sentiments, so I continue on. I know that some voices aren't in here complaining all day, they are just waiting until we release new dungeons, content, expand systems with quests and such, and a simple "Thanks!" is all I do this for. Trust me, If I was collecting 15$ / month from everyone playing, I could totally just work on Sundren all day and give you ALLL the lovely features you all want, but I have to do it in between my wife going to the doctor getting tested for cancer, and reading complaints on the forums before I can finally sit down and get things done for the players who actually are willing to enjoy the content.

Naw, I don't forget about the players. Not for a moment. Maybe I say things like "I wish Drow weren't on the server", but I don't see how that equates to "Screw the players, let's make a PW for ourselves Dev team!"

[reemixx]

Okay, guys, I'm going to say this again to clarify, 'cause many have obviously misunderstood me a little.

I understand WHY the vault wipe took place. I understand WHY there's constant change on this server. I understand WHY the team is trying to balance things, make everyone equal, and continually try to make the server better. I'm not saying I agree with the wipe, and I'm not saying I'm not a little disappointed over it, but I am saying I can see why it was decided. That isn't what I have a problem with here.

What I have a problem with is the lack of consistency, the constant changes in direction, deciding on one thing and then changing it the next week. It's the right of the staff to do with it what they will, I know, but what is the point if it's FOR the players, and the players won't play because they're all just out of patience? I know I'm definitely not the only one.

To the Sundren staff - in all your constant striving, the place has just stopped being fun for me. There's so much focus on technicalities, balance, etc, and it feels as though the staff are aiming for a state of perfection that you're never going to achieve, or that will at least take a loooong time to achieve. Considering the game is broken anyway, so many bugs, so many things that are far from perfect, it's going to be something that you'll constantly be doing. What happens when an expansion is released, and more bugs and imbalances are introduced? Guaranteed it's going to happen. Will we have another server wipe then?

As I said before, I would happily sacrifice a bit of the polish to gain a bit of consistency here. I view this server as far better than all of the other PW's already. But I'm really considering hanging up my boots for a while because the only reason I play at all is to have a good time, and with everything that's continually going on, the fun-factor just isn't there for me.

[undeadsteak]

I honestly feel like you guys simply lose track of the most important part of your world: the players.

Right, thats why they update for us, made this mod for us, and have been the best Staff i've seen in NwN2? The wipe was neccasary. Get over it, chars go some time or sooner. They decided to be nice and restore our chars in the first place. And the wipe was to stop lagging, which i find is very neccassary.

[GodBeastX]

What direction has changed?

[reemixx]

GBX - Something that's always bugged me is your elitist attitude. This whole thing seems like such a bother to you, and on many occasions I've found myself wondering why you do it at all. I don't think we want more content or more features at the moment. I don't, anyway. I just want some stability. Some consistency. RPers who will stick around. And DM's that don't jump up the wall every time they hear something they don't like.

Truthfully, I think you HAVE lost track of the players, at least their feelings. I've been ignored by you before. I've been insulted by you. And I just stood there and took it 'cause you're the big guy behind the curtain. Yes, we know you're good at what you do, mate... But I just can't believe you'd be doing it still if it weren't partially for your own enjoyment. You do it 'cause you want to. You don't do it just for the players.

The scripting is nice, but its secondary for me. I login to roleplay. I like to see some stories happening, some character relationships going on, some FUN. All this technical stuff - you've over-complicated things, and now you have a server with some really excellent scripting, but a serious lack of players because the trust is severed.

When I login I don't feel welcome, I always feel like I'm intruding on your playground. Sundren is no longer a friendly place.

I'm done here.

[Venture]

wow this post got heavy. you know it is a game, enjoy it or not is your choice.