Tweet
Okay, I've had a situation that happened today and I'd like to come clean with it.
Maia is a level 15 Ranger. She has 18 ranks in both Hide and Move Silently and the resulting bonuses of both hover around +24 easily (taking into account her armor check penalty). Maia enters Mossclaw Meet, looking for Garion Redwind and sees a trail of corpses leading into the fort. She heads in, stealthed, and avoids notice from the mossclaw patrol on the way to finally head through the entrance of the fort.
After going up the ramp, she and the bald elf wizard Eirimil (yes, bald!) come into view, though Maia is still stealthed. I immediately go for by DMFI skills rolls and get a 30 hide and a 40 move silently. I give Satoshi a six second wait to make his own rolls (which he doesn't) before just going on my way to the second tier of the fort to look around for Garion.
Predictably enough, Garion's not there. What I do get, though, is a tell from Satoshi-kun saying something to the effect of "Do you have Hide in plain sight?"
My answer? "No, I have Camouflage, though."
He replies, "If you don't have Hide in Plain Sight, it's pretty useless to make your rolls."
WTF?
I decide to mostly ignore him for the moment and vow to write something to deal with the particulars and just go on my way. And now here I am.
So I can stealth past a group of mossclaws unseen, but whenever I come into relative view of another player if I don't have HIPS but happened to be stealthed (Maia didn't happen on Eirimil and stealthed. She was already moving furtively), my 18 ranks in two skills suddenly become worthless against a wizard whom probably doesn't even have anything in ranks for spot and listen? (and not using True Seeing to boot)
*shakes head* What do people expect? That stealthed characters have to move behind tents and hug walls when the walkmesh and game engine don't allow for that? I'd like DMs to bring some input here, because I'm not too happy with how some players are currently interpreting this -- and I'm not even a rogue. I know there's the matter of stealth being badly implemented by Obsidian at the moment, but there's also the matter of the way players view this in the meantime.
Here's some food for thought:
Hide / Move Silently: Two skills which together play a vital part in the stealth mode. One establishes that characters ease at moving without drawing attention to oneself (this is not hide in shadows - it's 'hide') and the other is about moving as quietly as possible, maybe even through terrain possibly difficult to trod without making sounds. These are directly opposed by Spot and Listen; and some conditions offer modifiers to this (shadows, concealing terrain / having a light source, stepping over glass).
Steath mode: Usually indicated by having the character semi-opaque, the Stealth mode indicates a state in which the character is actively trying to avoid notice. Usually, a character creeping around unnoticed will move at half-speed. Obviously enough, trying to hide while already being observed, even casually.
Camouflage: An ability held by rangers in NwN2. Camouflage allows a ranger to move steathily at their normal movement speed. In summary, they become so good at remaining unseen in the wilds that they have no trouble increasing their pace and still remain able to hide and move silently effectively. This only works in outdoor areas, though (which ironically includes the courtyard of the necropolis... though stealth doesn't seem to effective against the necropolis' denizens).
Hide in Plain Sight: An ability shared by the Assassin, the Shadowdancer and the Ranger (except the latter's version only works outdoors); HiPS's benefit is to allow a character whom is not actively engaged in combat (not trading blows up close) to elude the notice of others, even if that character was being observed.
Maia is a level 15 Ranger. She has 18 ranks in both Hide and Move Silently and the resulting bonuses of both hover around +24 easily (taking into account her armor check penalty). Maia enters Mossclaw Meet, looking for Garion Redwind and sees a trail of corpses leading into the fort. She heads in, stealthed, and avoids notice from the mossclaw patrol on the way to finally head through the entrance of the fort.
After going up the ramp, she and the bald elf wizard Eirimil (yes, bald!) come into view, though Maia is still stealthed. I immediately go for by DMFI skills rolls and get a 30 hide and a 40 move silently. I give Satoshi a six second wait to make his own rolls (which he doesn't) before just going on my way to the second tier of the fort to look around for Garion.
Predictably enough, Garion's not there. What I do get, though, is a tell from Satoshi-kun saying something to the effect of "Do you have Hide in plain sight?"
My answer? "No, I have Camouflage, though."
He replies, "If you don't have Hide in Plain Sight, it's pretty useless to make your rolls."
WTF?
I decide to mostly ignore him for the moment and vow to write something to deal with the particulars and just go on my way. And now here I am.
So I can stealth past a group of mossclaws unseen, but whenever I come into relative view of another player if I don't have HIPS but happened to be stealthed (Maia didn't happen on Eirimil and stealthed. She was already moving furtively), my 18 ranks in two skills suddenly become worthless against a wizard whom probably doesn't even have anything in ranks for spot and listen? (and not using True Seeing to boot)
*shakes head* What do people expect? That stealthed characters have to move behind tents and hug walls when the walkmesh and game engine don't allow for that? I'd like DMs to bring some input here, because I'm not too happy with how some players are currently interpreting this -- and I'm not even a rogue. I know there's the matter of stealth being badly implemented by Obsidian at the moment, but there's also the matter of the way players view this in the meantime.
Here's some food for thought:
Hide / Move Silently: Two skills which together play a vital part in the stealth mode. One establishes that characters ease at moving without drawing attention to oneself (this is not hide in shadows - it's 'hide') and the other is about moving as quietly as possible, maybe even through terrain possibly difficult to trod without making sounds. These are directly opposed by Spot and Listen; and some conditions offer modifiers to this (shadows, concealing terrain / having a light source, stepping over glass).
Steath mode: Usually indicated by having the character semi-opaque, the Stealth mode indicates a state in which the character is actively trying to avoid notice. Usually, a character creeping around unnoticed will move at half-speed. Obviously enough, trying to hide while already being observed, even casually.
Camouflage: An ability held by rangers in NwN2. Camouflage allows a ranger to move steathily at their normal movement speed. In summary, they become so good at remaining unseen in the wilds that they have no trouble increasing their pace and still remain able to hide and move silently effectively. This only works in outdoor areas, though (which ironically includes the courtyard of the necropolis... though stealth doesn't seem to effective against the necropolis' denizens).
Hide in Plain Sight: An ability shared by the Assassin, the Shadowdancer and the Ranger (except the latter's version only works outdoors); HiPS's benefit is to allow a character whom is not actively engaged in combat (not trading blows up close) to elude the notice of others, even if that character was being observed.
Comment