Why the Low Numbers?

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Hey guys,

I've been noticing some lower numbers lately, and I want to know why. Is it something we're doing? Something we aren't? Something you'd like to see more of?

And it's ok if you have other games you're playing too, or RL stuff going on. This is just to see what we can do, as a staff, to make you folks happier on the server.

Thanks!

[Fury]

I am glad you asked!

Well, I can't speak for everyone, I can only give you what my personal thoughts are on it.

First and foremost, things just seem to be sitting and stagnating. There's no real progression of valley-wide plotline. This is a valley that's supposed to be at war, but what I see is a lot of just petty sniping. Sure there are sup-plots within the individual factions, but honestly... without a progression of the whole area's ongoing story... everything else just... gets stale.

And to, I seem to notice that some folks are trying to accomplish things, and, well... every attempt seems to be stymied. If we can't accomplish goals as players, especially after reaching the soft cap in levels, then.... there really isn't any point in putting effort into it. We can plot and plan up a storm, but if nothing can ever come of it... why do we do it? Everybody needs to have some wins in their corner from time to time- that means the good guys, and the bad guys, and the guys that perch on the fence.

Basically, if you're RPing well, there needs to be some kick back for it. But I think one thing that would be a big start is a server wide "world" event. Something that's going to affect everyone.

Also. More rogues and assassins. Because I'm partial.

[Laurk]

And to, I seem to notice that some folks are trying to accomplish things, and, well... every attempt seems to be stymied.

This. At this point in NWN, player retention is pretty paramount if you don't want to see all of your hard work summed up by the infamous 0 player count. Instead of "why should we do anything for one insignificant individual" it would be more helpful to the server to understand that each individual represents a significant portion of your player base and "fun" and "Immersion" are the only things keeping them from going to play other games/servers.

I know for my part, being able to accomplish player goals, or at LEAST be given a chance to fail in-game is paramount. Getting a blank: "No," is discouraging. Attempting to negotiate IG to accomplish difficult tasks/treaty/goals is part of what makes role playing fun. Being auto-denied isn't. Its so much better to be denied/fail in game, talking to an NPC than to be shut down on a forum.

Just my thoughts.

[cmosier]

You can never point to a single instance. Personally, I miss the level caps. I've seen that Kaeldorn got some bad press, but this was a good idea. Everybody rushes to 20 and grinds Rep... Then what? The DMs are expected to cater to everybody's wants at once. I haven't done the daily in ages with Byrun, because it just got old. I still have people I can RP with, which makes it worth while.

I'm not sure you can please everybody. Sometimes, players do have to step up when DMs are busy with other things.

Also... I've been trying to get a pen and paper game going regularly, been checking out Earthdawn 4th Edition, and started playing Final Fantasy 7 again. Also... I have Jury Duty, still. Been dealing with a work injury. And my Association (like a Union) is suing the City I work for because politicians are crooked $&@% suckers.

[sonuvalich]

I agree with most of what Fury said, while I understand that you can't always get what you want, I feel like roughly 99% of what I have attempted to do with my character has gone nowhere. The contracts and plans I have laid out are either waiting on other players or DM intervention, and there is only so much time I can spend shooting the breeze with other players IC before I feel like I am wasting my real life having fake conversations. Don't get me wrong, I love to RP with people, but there is only so much we can talk about without any real current events happening around us.

[Barathos]

I spend most of my free time on this server just because I need to improve my RP / D&D skills, and I really love to RP with the people in the community. It's also really enjoyable to play in the valley itself, as it does offer a lot of cool ideas that you can do.

But as River said, a single person can only do so much.

I've noticed the Ebon Coin barely have anything to do nowadays, whatever happened to their assasinations and intrigue?

The Blackwoods have some side things going on, but nothing with an over-arching story. Yes, they're mercs, but they're the cool mercs! ... right?

Druids/rangers are being worked on and that's just a scheduling issue atm, so free pass!

The Black Hands are sitting in their tower plotting evil, but they're only plots atm.

The Legion, the Hands of Mundus, and Triad are patrolling roads and farming Whurest for the most part. Nothing really happening here, either.

There's only so much DMs can do, and I know this. Just seems like this subject comes up from time to time with the same response of "More major plotlines." These are just my observations.

[bipolar bear]

I spend most of my free time on this server just because I need to improve my RP / D&D skills, and I really love to RP with the people in the community. It's also really enjoyable to play in the valley itself, as it does offer a lot of cool ideas that you can do.

But as River said, a single person can only do so much.

I've noticed the Ebon Coin barely have anything to do nowadays, whatever happened to their assasinations and intrigue?

The Blackwoods have some side things going on, but nothing with an over-arching story. Yes, they're mercs, but they're the cool mercs! ... right?

Druids/rangers are being worked on and that's just a scheduling issue atm, so free pass!

The Black Hands are sitting in their tower plotting evil, but they're only plots atm.

The Legion, the Hands of Mundus, and Triad are patrolling roads and farming Whurest for the most part. Nothing really happening here, either.

There's only so much DMs can do, and I know this. Just seems like this subject comes up from time to time with the same response of "More major plotlines." These are just my observations.

I think this mostly sums it, aside from people workin and schooling (except for me, had surgery two weeks ago, so I don't go back to work for another 6 weeks!!!!)


I have noticed that most of the dms here are found in the evenings ( CSTish ). perhaps if there where a few dms that could cover the mornings and afternoons? now I do understand that we all have to live and work too but perhaps people are not bothering to get online cause there is little oppertuinty to get envolved with an event , besides fireside conversations and grinding out XP or REP. anyhow just a thought.

that said I know about 4 or 5 players that are really waiting on the nature faction to get up and running..


not bitching at ya, I know your all busy.

(sorry for the spelling)

[[DM] Grinning Death]

There will always be so much the DM's can do in regards to individual player needs. And honestly, I think we've been bogged down too much in them. Fury is right, in saying that we should probably start moving the storyline alongside our DEV timetable (which has been the focus lately for the staff).

We move events using the factions, which are groups that are supposed to be player led. A storyline usually involves an external catalyst, followed by the interests of several factions converging on it leads to conflict and good RP. We give you these factions, because it's easier for us to have you decide your goals and pursue them in a way that generates conflict. If a certain faction isn't doing so, it's usually because there aren't people in it who want to run with the factions general guidelines towards a greater goal for the faction.

Laurk, you're correct in that being given the chance to fail is paramount. And I think we've been doing that, but we can certainly refocus.

A lot of the time, your plots will fail. They won't be followed up with, either by players or DMs, because we're human. We can't always be around to supervise a treaty, or approve a contract. That's your job, as players who want investment.

However, you're all correct in that we can be doing better. So expect to see a large plotline manifest in the next week or so. Additional feedback is welcome, so please post!

[Rekov]

My thoughts seem to echo the posters above me. There is only so much to talk about in a world that doesn't change. Discussing the same tense atmosphere and political climate starts to lose its point when the situation has not changed for several months. I see quite a few people who only log on long enough to do their dailies, and it's sad, but I fully understand it.

In my short time at Sundren, I have seem DMs go out of their way to make themselves available for player requests. Part of the problem for me is that I never really know what to ask for. My character doesn't have any authority to get balls rolling, so to speak, so I don't feel as though I can start the kind of plot which Sundren needs right now: A plot which draws in other characters and organizations, has widespread implications and consequences that last beyond the duration of the event.

Maybe I just need to be more ballsy about requests, but it would be encouraging to new/shy players if there were big, arcing events that sweep people up and get them involved.

[Phantom Lamb]

I agree with most everything above. I stated to GD privately:

- I think a big global event is in order. Most events these days are responding to narrow sections of the population (character requests, factions, etc.). Those are good, but when that's all you do, it means the majority of those online are simply not getting DM interactions.

- More DM activity. If people are burnt out, it's understandable. So is RL commitments. But we should fill those holes so there is activity more often.

- Build incentive for players to have conflict. Use a plot vehicle, give rewards or reason for players to be pitted against each other and want to win. Good stories must always have conflict. Without it, we just have people grinding to level 20 in a month and then doing dailies. Incentives could come from systems, new things added to the world to compete over, or DM plots.

- Players aren't off the hook either. Being neutral doesn't mean you don't have a stake in shit. Make up your own adventures! Sitting around the Second Wind and shooting the breeze isn't an adventure; neither is grinding Mirakus Mines 24/7. Mix it up, build your own plots to interact with other players. Make yourself vulnerable to robbery. Pay people to do menial jobs! You'd be surprised the value you get back from it.

[wangxiuming]

So expect to see a large plotline manifest in the next week or so. Additional feedback is welcome, so please post!

Looking forward to this! I had a lot of fun during the Second Sundering plotline, mostly because it was something that my character could react to, could discuss, argue, and fight about with his allies, and to focus efforts on. Sometimes it takes an outside impetus in order for characters to evolve, to grow, and to change, and world events are undoubtedly one of the best sources of character development and drama ( the good kind ).

[Barathos]

In my short time at Sundren, I have seem DMs go out of their way to make themselves available for player requests. Part of the problem for me is that I never really know what to ask for. My character doesn't have any authority to get balls rolling, so to speak, so I don't feel as though I can start the kind of plot which Sundren needs right now: A plot which draws in other characters and organizations, has widespread implications and consequences that last beyond the duration of the event.

This. This is me right here.

I've never been the one to DM or create events, but I've always been one to interact with situations and figure out how to work problems. It's awesome to read some of these RP Central posts and figure out what's going on in the world, but there's no way I could do something like that.

The other issue I have is whenever a DM does log on for "Hey guys! Send me a request!" and I just sit here like

"Well... I mean... I have X and Y going on, but I see 9 other people online, so I'll let oyu have them. I'll just be over here farming on my guy..."

It's not that you guys are intimidating, it's just I have no idea how to form a request, be it character or in-game, without sounding like "Yo! I need yo helpz over here STAT. We got a major issue and it needs resolvin'!"

((Edit for grammar error))

[ManUtd4Ever]

The updates and the time put in by the staff have been nothing short of amazing IMO. I have been on the server during high points and lows, and I plan to continue playing regardless of the log in numbers.

My only frustration is that I am a European based player. Most of the significant RP events take place during EST and are not accessible to me due of my RL work schedule.
This is a global server... it would be great if non PST/EST players could have an impact too.

Cheers!

[[DM] Grinning Death]

To be honest, I've noticed this. All the DMs have, and we want you to feel like you can make a request that we feel comfortable resolving. To that end, I'd offer this advice:

1. Figure out your goals as a PC. What do you want to accomplish? General stuff like, "I want to be an assassin," or "I want to beat the Black Hand" are good, but don't give us much to work with. Specific goals that fit within a larger scheme like those are what we're looking for. So, if you want to beat the Black Hand, give us a specific goal that will help you do that. For instance, you'd like to sneak into Sestra and find the barracks to plant a firebomb.

2. Figure out how those goals will get other players involved. Planting a firebomb in Sestra is great and all, but why are you doing it? For whose benefit? How will this help your faction? Was this a mission given to you by another PC (which is awesome)? Or is it for some larger purpose, like to frame another faction for doing it? The more answers you come up with, the better we can run something.

3. Tell us how you plan on doing it. Give us your actions as a PC, a real plan that shows forethought and insight. Are you going to walk on in? Do it in disguise? Ethereal your way in? The more specific you make your methods, the easier it'll be for us to help you accomplish (or fail) at them.

4. Know that you're not going to always win. Some stuff will blow up in your face. Others will peter out, and others will be flat denied or argued against. But, that's ok. The trick is to keep trying, until you get it accomplished. No single mover on this server has ever accomplished something on the first try. Or second, or third, or tenth.

At least, these are the things I look for in requests. So if someone says, "I'm part of the Legion, and my superior PC ordered me to scout Sestra to gather information for an attack on their barracks. To do this, I want to disguise myself as a peasant and sneak in, making my way to the barracks in order to find a patrol route and military numbers," I say, "Hell yeah. Let's do it."

[Barathos]

Could we get this guideline stickied? Because this answers my question perfectly. Thanks so much for putting it down like that, GD.