Warlock Revamp - Upcoming Changes

[GodBeastX]

I think I better bring in my crafting plugin which supports all kinds of crazy crap for crafting recipes.

[Aniril_Telin]

Logical switches should fix that. IE: SpellA && SpellB || SpellA && SpellC

[Kitsunestume]

Crafting? Please? and Fey pacts Please?
[. . .]
But seriously Crafting is the COOLEST feature of a warlock and it is totally unusable. I was thinking that you could add and invocation to the warlock list. (or use one common evocation that all warlocks take) and add that to the crafting recipes. (one invocation for all of them so that a warlock can cast the invocation on the bench when prompted and craft away!)

My observation of the current problem with multiple spells for crafting is that Kaeldorn's system only supports the AND function for multiple spells, not OR or XOR. So without an update to the crafting back-end, it would either be warlock-only recipes, or you'ld have patterns requiring the contents of a bad joke: A wizard, cleric, and warlock walk into a workshop. . .

Hence why we have the ever-delayed crafting overhaul. No offence, GBX, I'm aware you have a LOT of projects, this thread included.

[gbbishop]

Crafting? Please? and Fey pacts Please?

I just think there is TOO much potential for fun RP out of Fey warlocks... There is certainly the lore to support them (see below.)

I found this diggin about. While I am not in favor of starbright goody-goody-happy-go-lucky Warlocks bouncing about spouting sparkly rainbows from their arse. I think the pact is dark in nature and that is what is important. Fey can be chaotic and evil just as much as demons. They just operate in different ways and for different reasons.
Eladrin was a shock for me. Though great for the anti hero.

I would humbly request to open up our accepted perceptions of warlocks for play on sundren.


Aberration: while most aberrations are generally weak, those that inhabit the Far Realm are powerful beyond the scope of man. Warlocks that make pacts with inhabitants of the Far Realm are generally twisted, and desire nothing else than to bring the full force of the Far Realm into the Material Plane. A warlock must be non-good to make this pact (thus, no chaotic good creature may make a pact with them).

Demon: the warlock makes a pact with one of the inhabitants of the Abyss. While few demons make direct pacts with people, instead granting their power willingly, some intelligent fiends grant people a measure of their power to wreak havoc upon others. Generally, demons don’t expect warlocks to follow their oath, and generally choose those who think very similarly to them. A A warlock must be non-lawful, non-good to make such pact (thus, it is generally limited to chaotic neutral, chaotic evil, neutral and neutral evil creatures).

Devil: the warlock makes a pact with one of the fiends of the Nine Hells. Making a pact with a devil is generally a losing act, because they are incredibly deceptive and generally demand that people follow their pact to the letter, but generally offer some leeway to how it may be done and at which moment. Warlocks who make pacts with devils are risk-takers, knowing they are attempting to cheat creatures that cheat as a way of life, but generally they are the ones deceived. A warlock must be non-chaotic, non-good to make such pact (thus, it is generally limited to neutral, neutral evil or lawful evil creatures).

Eladrin: although it is rare to see creatures of good offering such dark powers, eladrin are mavericks when ensuring the forces of good are victorious (unlike lawful good creatures whom chafe at the methods). Much like demons, eladrin don’t generally enforce creatures to following their pact, but are swift in their vengeance when they use these powers for evil. A warlock must be non-lawful, non-evil to make such pact (thus, it is generally limited to chaotic good, chaotic neutral and neutral creatures).

Fey: fickle and unpredictable creatures, fey are well-known for establishing mischievous (and sometimes nefarious) plans to their own benefit, generally providing limitless power and no restrictions to warlocks but sometimes altering the outcome of their lives as they become intertwined with the life of the mortal. A warlock must be chaotic to make such a “pact”.

Yugoloth: mercenaries to the last, few yugoloths offer others their power, but some that find the worth of a mortal ally may offer their power to warlocks, for no other price than their service. A warlock must be evil to make such pact.

But seriously Crafting is the COOLEST feature of a warlock and it is totally unusable. I was thinking that you could add and invocation to the warlock list. (or use one common evocation that all warlocks take) and add that to the crafting recipes. (one invocation for all of them so that a warlock can cast the invocation on the bench when prompted and craft away!)

[Laurk]

Any chance that the Essence of Orcus would also give you the weaknesses of the undead too? Then again, I guess undead in Sundren aren't immune to sneak attack or crits like elsewhere.

[GodBeastX]

So far what I have done on warlocks in my test module:

- Changed skill points for 2+int to 4+int
- Added selection of Infernal or Abyssal pacts
- Partially fixed spell resist of eldritch blast (Only issue is combat text may not match results but will function correctly)

I'm working on pact-based feats you can select from as a warlock as well as redoing some of the utterly invocations for warlocks to be more useful. Then I update some text and warlocks will be revamped.

Since the pact feats are bonus feats (Except for the damage reduction) I'm interested in any ideas people have for pact feats.

Some feats I have already in mind are:

Devil Form - Infernal Pact - Become a powerful infernal fiend (Like word of change is now)
Demon Form - Abyssal Pact - Become a powerful abyssal fiend (Like word of change is now)
Hellfire Blast - Infernal Pact - Channel hellfire into your eldritch blasts for more damage
Hellfire Shield - Infernal Pact - Surround yourself with hellfire to damage attackers
Essence of Pale Night - Abyssal Pact - Gain concealment as thought incorporeal like Pale Night.
Essence of Orcus - Abyssal Pact - Become like the undead and gain some resistences.


More to come. There will be 4 selectable on level up at levels 5, 10, 15, 20. Some of the above will likely have uses per day.

[gbbishop]

oh what about warlock crafting. any chance they will be able to .. .you know craft something?

That would add ooodles of utility to this class. (actually why I stopped playing mine)

Oh that and they are SO not team players... almost zero interaction between a warlock and the party.

[Shadechild]

Maybe you can change Hideous Blow to act like Eldritch Glaive does for Kaedrins pack? (It attacks as many times as the warlocks Attack per Round with melee touch attacks.)

[Laurk]

It would be cool if warlocks could possess things. Something like a "magic jar" incantation. A warlock could force someone else into a Will save, if successful, gain control of that PC or NPC for a short time (new will save every turn?), much like a wizard takes control of his familiar.

If the victim makes its save, the warlock is stunned for a round and takes X damage. If they succeed, they own body is unresponsive, just like a wizard possessing his familiar. If the body is discovered while possessing someone, it can be killed, driving the warlock's soul out of the possessed person and into the fugue.

That would be pretty interesting if its even possible. It would be even more incredable if others had no way of knowing if a PC was possessed other than the possessers ability to pretend.

[wangxiuming]

Time to rename all warlocks to Dwarfbane! XD

[Cornuto]

I want an eldrich blast that toggles the character facial hair flag between 0 and 1. So it takes beards away from the bearded, and gives beards to the beardless. Probably a greater power.

[wangxiuming]

Any chance dark discorporation might make it into the new invocations? I have drooled about this ever since an old dev floated the possibility years ago, though i think he never finished it.

[cmosier]

The changing into the form of a fiend will become a bonus feat, not an invocation. Word of Change was meant to polymorph enemies into chickens and the like as a baleful spell. I see no reason not to leave it that way.

For the record, Caelryth would have been a lot more fun turning enemies into chickens rather than mauling them as a Pit Fiend. I will also admit, he would've abused this power to its fullest.

[cmosier]

Considering that, far as I know, Warlocks are still an approval-only class, I don't see why Fey-pact should stay off the table after you have the Lower Planes done and working (and probably had a break to look at other stuff for a while). I imagine part of the approval process for Warlocks will expand to include what kind of pact they'll have, so if you guys do eventually allow fey-pact the numbers can still be kept down.

Of course, if I wanted to play a fey-pact warlock, I'd be more interested in Unseelie Sidhe, Redcaps and Sluagh than Fairy Godmothers and... no, that's the only really good fey I can think of right now. :P Even kindly Brownies can become menacing Bogarts if you piss them off.

I'm starting to think Sundren Warlocks are not meant to be much like 3.5 Warlocks when it comes to description. Warlocks are more supernatural than demonic or diabolic. Not all warlocks make a pact. Their powers can come from "wild or fey." They are actually a pretty diverse class (at least in Pen and Paper).

That being said, the idea that they've all made deals with devils is more of "commoner" thinking. They are meant to be kind of exotic or creepy.

As a player of a 20th level warlock the idea that Warlock > Wizard/Sorcerer isn't true. I think they are restricted more due to the fact they are supposed to be kind of exotic, not because of power level.

[Tamha]

Considering that, far as I know, Warlocks are still an approval-only class, I don't see why Fey-pact should stay off the table after you have the Lower Planes done and working (and probably had a break to look at other stuff for a while). I imagine part of the approval process for Warlocks will expand to include what kind of pact they'll have, so if you guys do eventually allow fey-pact the numbers can still be kept down.

Of course, if I wanted to play a fey-pact warlock, I'd be more interested in Unseelie Sidhe, Redcaps and Sluagh than Fairy Godmothers and... no, that's the only really good fey I can think of right now. :P Even kindly Brownies can become menacing Bogarts if you piss them off.