Bardic Lore?

[Elusa]

I was checking the updates done since my hiatus, and I saw this on the Aug 28 update:

Bardic Lore: When using a knowledge skill in which you have 0 ranks, you are considered trained, and add your bard levels to the check as a bonus.

2 things:
1) This doesn't seem to exist in the game. Nowhere on the wiki, nowhere I can find in-game. The knowledge skills that I have no ranks in are still not usable.
2) This seems crazily imbalanced. A level 20 bard would have +20 to all knowledge checks? And if you level up and add 1 point to a knowledge skill, your knowledge actually decreases?

I guess the second doesn't matter since it doesn't seem to be implemented.

[cmosier]

I don't see an issue with bards knowing a decent amount about a lot of different things. *Lights fuse and runs*

[Raksha]

So almost twice as much bonus as comes from equipping certain gear? Some pieces of gear have a total of about +20-25 skill points spread out, including many knowledge skills. That's right; by putting on your armor, you gain as much competence as someone who, by PnP standards, is an expert on the area.

The issue with knowledge skills, along with skills in general, is that specialization is encouraged. Want to RP someone with some local knowledge but can't sink a whole point per level in? Don't bother!

This also throws off the skill targets for DM events. A specialist will easily make every check, orrrr a non-specialist will never make a check, depending on where the DM sets the knowledge target.

( I'm a bit biased because knowledge skills are stupid anyhow. Someone with knowledge: planes zilch, told by an expert, suddenly knows that silver is good against devils. It takes about thirty seconds to impart something that requires, like, a DC 20 knowledge check. )

Long rant short: knowledge skills are silly, and this application isn't any sillier than most. I'd knock it down to half bard level so that they're generalists rather than specialists unless they go for the full point a level, but it's not a big thing when +knowledge gear is available to certain factions as abundantly as it is.

[Kitsunestume]

I think this is knows by the staff, and if we were to stick to the theme of pathfinderization, barsds could have a nice flat +level/2 bonus to all knowledges.

[Elusa]

+level/2 would be fine. To me, +10 is very knowledgeable, +20 is expert knowledge. +20 as a base would have no incentive to invest points.

After coming back from hiatus though, I'm shocked that at some of gear I'm seeing. +Knowledge gear shouldn't even exist.

[Lugwy]

...How does +knowledge/+lore gear even work? Is it some item that, when worn, magically grants you more know-how? Are there "cheat sheets" engraved into the item, or implanted into your head when you wear it?

It's always a thing that makes me whenever I start thinking too hard about it.

[Fuzziebunny]

There is some + lore gear that makes sense. I mean, I have a book that tells me how to make traps... Seems reasonable to me that a how to book would help here.

[Lugwy]

A book makes sense. A ring (Scholar's Ring) or comestibles (Potion of Lore, Potion of Fox's Cunning)...less so.

[FriendlyNecromancer]

...How does +knowledge/+lore gear even work? Is it some item that, when worn, magically grants you more know-how? Are there "cheat sheets" engraved into the item, or implanted into your head when you wear it?

It's always a thing that makes me whenever I start thinking too hard about it.

The same way everything good or bad happens in the Realms.
A wizard did it.

[Grand Unified Theory]

A book makes sense. A ring (Scholar's Ring) or comestibles (Potion of Lore, Potion of Fox's Cunning)...less so.

Ever taken hallucinogenics? Stuff causes some mighty fine insight, it does.

[cmosier]

...How does +knowledge/+lore gear even work? Is it some item that, when worn, magically grants you more know-how? Are there "cheat sheets" engraved into the item, or implanted into your head when you wear it?

It's always a thing that makes me whenever I start thinking too hard about it.

The same way a belt makes you stronger are a ring shields you from attacks.

[GodBeastX]

Bards are supposed ta know they sheeit

[Laurk]

Well its easy to RP how a belt makes you stronger and a ring shileds you from attacks. Infact for the rings, it actually tells you it creates a subtle but tangible field of force around you that helps deflect blows.

Knoweldge skill stuff "is" a bit tricker to RP, and I think thats a valid question because a lot of people really like to RP what these things are doing down to a biological level. For example, Abby tells people that the remove fear spell disables the adrehnal glands so that the fight/flight instinct can't be triggered by panic.

I always view potions of lore as making your thinking process much clearer so that for a moment, you basically have a photographic memory and can recall volumes of information you probably glossed over at some point, then forgot.

Other than potions, I really only like books for knowledge skills, because you can RP flipping through pages for insight.

[cmosier]

Well its easy to RP how a belt makes you stronger and a ring shileds you from attacks. Infact for the rings, it actually tells you it creates a subtle but tangible field of force around you that helps deflect blows.

Knoweldge skill stuff "is" a bit tricker to RP, and I think thats a valid question because a lot of people really like to RP what these things are doing down to a biological level. For example, Abby tells people that the remove fear spell disables the adrehnal glands so that the fight/flight instinct can't be triggered by panic.

I always view potions of lore as making your thinking process much clearer so that for a moment, you basically have a photographic memory and can recall volumes of information you probably glossed over at some point, then forgot.

Other than potions, I really only like books for knowledge skills, because you can RP flipping through pages for insight.

If I have a book, I don't need the knowledge skill. The answer is right there in front of me.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I was checking the updates done since my hiatus, and I saw this on the Aug 28 update:

Bardic Lore: When using a knowledge skill in which you have 0 ranks, you are considered trained, and add your bard levels to the check as a bonus.

And if you level up and add 1 point to a knowledge skill, your knowledge actually decreases?

You are considered trained if you have 0 ranks (i.e. you can make trained throws without autofailing). If you have ranks they just add to the bardic knowledge score. for example if you have max ranks at level 20(23) + your bardic knowledge(20) + Inspire Competence(+6) + Stat mod (+2INT) you would have a modified rank of 51