Sundren crafting bugfix discussion

[kuscotopia]

I'm thinking that would depend on WHAT was being changed. If we were to go in and start messing with the scripting, yeah, I can see problems spawning from that.
Hopefully, however, changing variables (like having all the alchemical creation target the magic bench instead of the alch bench) will simply cause the patterns for things like Holy Water to start working. (The alchemy bench dosen't have the scripts for dealing with caster-level. Or being the target of spells. would still need proximity though.)

Aye, it could be the case that it was just with the scripts. I do not know for certain the sorts of changes that led the issues I described previously.

I was just performing my due diligence by sharing what I know.

[Kitsunestume]

Aye, it could be the case that it was just with the scripts. I do not know for certain the sorts of changes that led the issues I described previously.

I was just performing my due diligence by sharing what I know.

More complete knowledge of the situation is always appreciated

[Kitsunestume]

Most intersting. The booleans for model and tint alterations are in here as well. Out of curiosity, how receptive would the community or staff be for toggling it on for most things that make sence? Solve the "Unalterable pattern for magic cloaks" problem and all that?

[Edit] Point still remains, although it appears for Cloaks of Cha that came to mind, they technically are already editable according to the booleans. Hrmmm.... Will look in deeper once I get home

[Kitsunestume]

looking over the 2da, it is apparently that (as a few of us might already know) fire and cold enchant can be applied to weapon types 0,1,3,21 (melee, glove, staff, ranged, I think). Sonic, shocking, and acid can only be applied to types 1&3(melee and staff). Would it be reasonable to make all elemental damage equal across the board?

[edit] further analysis reveals what I suspect to be that precision (Attack bonus) can't be added to staffs

[Mournas]

Most of the crafting system was put together back in the Max Level of 15 days, plus Lotus is correct. Kael hated anything that wasn't non-combat drama.

It'd be nice to overhaul the existing crafting system and update all the stats, fix bugs, introduce new recipes and stuff as a stop-gap between now and whenever the new system gets finalised.

I agree completely, my question is how competitive should the new system be with faction gear? With an extreme amount of hard work and money Andelain had invested into the crafting system to get stuff made for him that was almost as good as the rank 3 items from the triumvirate store. Keep in mind that this was Top of the Line from the crafting system and I can tell you that I paid a lot of cash for fatigue, gems, and the other materials needed ... probably enough to pay for Rank 4 gear. Example: +4 Mithral Full plate in the crafting system would cost in the range of 175,000 ... Or I can just drop 50,000 on Rank 4 gear which puts the +4 Mithral Full Plate to shame.

I would like to know what staff members and players alike would like to see out of an enhanced system. Please keep in mind people tailor their characters to the crafting system when they make one that can craft/enchant: Generally a lot of skill points, feats, and stats.

It'd also be nice to win the lottery.

Yes

[Doubtful]

Simple, Achievable Goals: Let's get the bug fixes done before thinking about expansion.

If we can fix bugs, then we try new recipes. If new recipes work then we can think about the maths and expanding the aims of the crafting system.

[Kitsunestume]

speaking of which, I've got a version of 2das with the following fixes:

(nx2_enchanting.2da)Incantation 19: Switched essence values for Undead Bane (was water3/power2, plan states power3/water2, changed to match plan)
(nx2_enchating.2da)Incantation 44: Abberant Pipe in Cost/spells
(nx2_crafting.2da)Recipe 828: Miniature Golem, Switched order of benches. Magic bench should be primary so script works properly.
(nx2_crafting.2da)Recipe 708: Greater Holy Water,Added Magic Workbench into required facilities. Spells-scripts are not handled by alchemy bench.
(nx2_crafting.2da)Recipe 710: Holy water, Added Magic Workbench into required facilities. Spells-scripts are not handled by alchemy bench.
(nx2_crafting.2da)Recipe 714: Improved Holy Water, Added Magic Workbench into required facilities. Spells-scripts are not handled by alchemy bench.
(nx2_crafting.2da)Recipe 719: Perfected Holy Water, Added Magic Workbench into required facilities. Spells-scripts are not handled by alchemy bench.
(nx2_crafting.2da)Recipe 740: Boiling Trollsblood, Added Magic Workbench into required facilities. Spells-scripts are not handled by alchemy bench.
(nx2_crafting.2da)Recipe 741: Flash Pellet, Added Magic Workbench into required facilities. Spells-scripts are not handled by alchemy bench.
(nx2_crafting.2da)Recipe 308: Leather Belt, Crafting plan lists 2 belts as result, 2da only made 1, aligned to pattern
(nx2_crafting.2da)Recipe 309: Frostfur Belt, Crafting plan lists 2 belts as result, 2da only made 1, aligned to pattern

Still working on comparing the 2das to the lists and lists of plans James has.
Who or where might I send them to?

[Kitsunestume]

Another note that might be done is the Adamntine sheilds: the OC versions have a bugged DR puncture value (2/ vs. 2/-). If someone could make corrected copies, the 2das could be replaced in the 2das so any future adamantine shields actually have damage reduction.

Adamantine Light Shield: mwa_shlt_ada_4 (nx2_crafting.2da, recepie 222)
- (suggest making a new one: su_it_cftd_lshield_ada)
Adamantine Heavy Shield: mwa_shhv_ada_4 (nx2_crafting.2da, recepie 225)
- (suggest making a new one: su_it_cftd_hshield_ada)
Adamantine Tower Shield: mwa_shtw_ada_4 (nx2_crafting.2da, recepie 228)
- (suggest making a new one: su_it_cftd_tshield_ada)

[Daimondheart]

Kitsunestume suggested I put this here. In kuscotopia's and my quest to make druid armor for Cora out of Wildwood planks, we've found the final result to be less than what we hoped. Visually the armor looks more like scale mail than wood and today kuscotopia wanted to make the armor just to see its stats. With the help of Kitsunestume, we found out the fullplate version of Wildwood armor is essentially a halfplate with +2 Dex Bonus, +2 Armor Check Penalty, -10% Arcane Spell Failure, -12.5 pounds. This essentially leaves the Wildwood Fullplate as merely a more viable halfplate option that can be used by druids. I would like to suggest these stat mods still be used but have them applied to the base Fullplate statistics. The end result being:

Base Armor Class: 8
Maximum Dexterity Bonus: 3
Armor Check Penalty: -4
Arcane Spell Failure: 25%
Feats Required: Heavy Armor
Weight: 37.5 pound(s)
Material: Wood (Wildwood)

I feel this is fair as this is a wood that can crafted so it is nearly as hard as steel yet also repairs itself when damaged, putting it on par with Mithral which, while lighter, can't repair itself. The armor should still require the heavy armor feat and not be treated as medium armor as the weight is not cut in half like Mithral Fullplate.

As for the appearance, kuscotopia has been working on that and he sent me some wonderful looking screen shots. He's going to post them here later at my request. My only gripe with the female version is the lack of pants; however, it seems the addition of pants ruins the nice vine features which I wanted to keep at any cost.

I haven't seen any other examples of Wildwood armor, so they might need a similar overhaul as well. Here's some screen shots of the Wildwood Fullplate on a female for reference.

[kuscotopia]

Kit also mentioned that wildwood armor was marked as unchangeable with regards to appearance in the crafting 2das. Hence, we are unable to change the base appearance of the armor Cora currently has. Why are some recipes set to be unchangeable while others aren't? I don't really have a good answer for that.

I personally agree that fullplate armors should be fullplate in terms of AC bonus, so at the very least I think wildwood fullplate should be brought up to a +8 armor bonus. If the "nearly as strong as steel" is the motivation behind the +7, then perhaps the lightness can be superior to other metal heavy armors (i.e. higher dex, lower armor penalty, and lighter overall weight).

Below is the armor I drafted for Cora. There are several downsides to using this armor as the default model though. First, it is a female only armor. A male wearing this armor gets the default shirt instead of a breastplate. Second, while the vining is cool in appearance it prevents any leg armor being applied to the model do to visual tearing. Hence all the ladies wearing such armor must adopt the "battle lingerie" look or deal with other graphics related issues.

FRONT:


SIDE:


BACK:


If folks are on board with replacing the default Wildwood armor then I suggest I head back to the toolset and come up with a gender neutral set. In addition, perhaps we can explore making the appearance changeable w.r.t. entries in the 2DA.

[Daimondheart]

Hmm... giving up a point of AC for another point of Dex bonus would be fair. And now that I think about it, Wildwood would probably be lighter than Mithral as it is a wood vs a metal. So perhaps...

Base Armor Class: 7
Maximum Dexterity Bonus: 4
Armor Check Penalty: -2
Arcane Spell Failure: 20%
Feats Required: Medium Armor
Weight: 20 pound(s)
Material: Wood (Wildwood)

Thus making the stat mods for Wildwood armor: -1 Base Armor Class, +3 Dex Bonus, +4 Armor Check Penalty, -15% Arcane Spell Failure, 40% Base Weight

On a related note, does anyone else think armors and clothing would be better if their default appearances had naked feet and hands? Think about it. Boots and gloves are mostly just purchased for appearance/stats and are not really needed. Beginners usually run around "bare foot" but you can never tell because everything comes with default shoes and gloves. If all outfits/armors were set so they were bare footed and bare handed, shoes and gloves would become a necessity rather than a luxury. Plus we'd be able to actually take off our shoes and gloves in role play.

[Kitsunestume]

Kit also mentioned that wildwood armor was marked as unchangeable with regards to appearance in the crafting 2das. Hence, we are unable to change the base appearance of the armor Cora currently has. Why are some recipes set to be unchangeable while others aren't? I don't really have a good answer for that.
[. . .]
In addition, perhaps we can explore making the appearance changeable w.r.t. entries in the 2DA.

This is solvable, and would take less than 10 seconds to correct, if deemed acceptable. Similarly all the Frostfur armor has fixed appearance and tint: it was always my interpretation that white stuff. . . sorta dyes easier.

[thaelis]

Hmm... giving up a point of AC for another point of Dex bonus would be fair. And now that I think about it, Wildwood would probably be lighter than Mithral as it is a wood vs a metal. So perhaps...

Thus making the stat mods for Wildwood armor: -1 Base Armor Class, +3 Dex Bonus, +4 Armor Check Penalty, -15% Arcane Spell Failure, 40% Base Weight

On a related note, does anyone else think armors and clothing would be better if their default appearances had naked feet and hands? Think about it. Boots and gloves are mostly just purchased for appearance/stats and are not really needed. Beginners usually run around "bare foot" but you can never tell because everything comes with default shoes and gloves. If all outfits/armors were set so they were bare footed and bare handed, shoes and gloves would become a necessity rather than a luxury. Plus we'd be able to actually take off our shoes and gloves in role play.

Weight reflects weight, Dex bonus reflects flexibility and weight. Wood is not generally known for it's great flexibility, although granted it's living and this is a fantasy game. In terms of balance though I would not support making it better than Mithral, unless as you say the Armour bonus is one or even two less than the equivalent mithril armour

[Doubtful]

Wild wood being better than mithral is a no-go.

This is solvable, and would take less than 10 seconds to correct, if deemed acceptable. Similarly all the Frostfur armor has fixed appearance and tint: it was always my interpretation that white stuff. . . sorta dyes easier.

I think it'd be very cool if most of the armours and clothes had a changeable appearance, being able to customise appearance is important to most people - they want to be able to reflect their character in their clothes and costume.

[Kitsunestume]

I think it'd be very cool if most of the armours and clothes had a changeable appearance, being able to customise appearance is important to most people - they want to be able to reflect their character in their clothes and costume.

for brevity sake I'd rather not drop my entire change-log for this, but basically, there are two booleans, one for appearance chance, one for tint change. Here is lists of stuff that would have something people might want to customize that can't be currently:

Robe of the Archmagi: False|True
Leggings of Tigers Grace: False|False
Boots of elvenkind: True|False
Cloak of Elvenkind: True|False
Wildwood Banded Mail: False|True
Wildwood Breastplate: False|True
Wildwood Chain Shirt: False|True
Wildwood Chainmail: False|True
Wildwood Full-plate: False|True
Wildwood Half-plate: False|True
Wildwood Scalemail: False|True
Duskwood Breastplate: False|True
Alchemical Gold Banded Mail: True|False
Alchemical Gold Breastplate: True|False
Alchemical Gold Chain Shirt: True|False
Alchemical Gold Chainmail: True|False
Alchemical Gold Full-plate: True|False
Alchemical Gold Half-plate: True|False
Alchemical Gold Scale-mail: True|False
Alchemical Gold Light Shield: True|False
Alchemical Gold Heavy Shield: True|False
Alchemical Gold Tower Shield: True|False
Shadow-silk Padded: False|False
Shadow-silk Leathers: False|False
Shadow-silk Hide: False|False
Trollkin Hide: False|False
Socketed Turban: False|True (Why can't any hat have a socket? Other than the name)
Frost-fur Padded: True|False
Frost-fur Leathers: True|False
Frost-fur Studded Leathers: True|False
Frost-fur Hide: True|False
Woolen Tunic: False|True
Coarse-fur Tunic: False|True
Frost-fur Tunic: False|False

List currently limited to things that make sence, and is soley based on the booleans. Some things like the Cha+ cloaks are just screwed up and have the boolean checked but don't alter. Admittedly, I think the last one I made was for either some Paladin or Axxius, can't remember which.
Prefferably, we can turn all of these to [1] or true, if you don't speak binary.