Faction Areas

[thaelis]

Hey, just wanted to get some clarification on which areas are faction HQ's e.g. for Team evil, Colibrites etc and which aren't.

I've read in other post that storming Faction HQ's is not allowed and will be punished, but honestly how are we supposed to know what is and what isn't?

I entered the Gargoyle gates on cold climb once, and the interior seemed very non-combat designed, with lots of named NPC's (who unfortunately I killed before realising what they actually were, sorry!!). I'm 99% sure that that is a Colibrite lair.

The others I'm wondering about are Necropolis lower tombs, Viridale vamp tombs, Argyle keep (does it even have an interior?), and the gates which seem unopenable in Mossdale Graveyard (I'm guessing that's the Black Hand HQ, again I've never been able to open it)

Are there any others I haven't listed? The Eboncoin lair I think everyone knows.

I just want to be clear on what we are allowed to explore and what we aren't. Thanks!

[Vaelek]

The Wyntir estate beyond the gates in the Cold Climb is a sub-faction HQ, I believe intended to be made into an accessible dungeon in the future. The Viridale Crypt is a sub-faction lair, I believe intended to be made into an accessible dungeon in the future.

Both of the above normally require keys to enter.

Argyle Keep has never been specific to a faction and only has the exterior finished.
What's accessible in Mossdale is what's for grabs, or was so in the past. The secret route to the Citadel was fine, too, until you get to the Citadel. Sundren City and the Gate of the Sunderer are shared faction and sub-faction HQs. Sestra is a faction HQ. Port Avanthyr is a faction HQ.

[wangxiuming]

Are there any others I haven't listed? The Eboncoin lair I think everyone knows.

Watch out for daggers in the dark ...

[Dispater]

It is against the server rules to 'Storm' a faction HQ without the consent and presence of a DM. These areas are not fully represented by the visible NPC's and the AI is easily exploited.

I entered the Gargoyle gates on cold climb once, and the interior seemed very non-combat designed, with lots of named NPC's

This is infact a faction HQ for the Colibrite arm of the Black Hand.

Argyle keep (does it even have an interior?),

There is no Argyle faction.

I'm wondering about are Necropolis lower tombs, Viridale vamp tombs

The Tombs in the Necropolis are a dungeon area. The (Vampire) tombs should be locked, and are not meant to be a dungeon.

the gates which seem unopenable in Mossdale Graveyard (I'm guessing that's the Black Hand HQ, again I've never been able to open it

The gates in the Mossdale Graveyard are a puzzle leading up to a boss fight.


All other faction areas I can think of are neutral to players except the Ebon Coin lair, which is locked up tight as far as I know. In addition you would likely know it wasn't a dungeon if you were headed into it!

[Dispater]

Beat to the punch. I would also like to add that in reality it is against server rules to attack NPC's in general without DM consent (and usually presence). The in game AI, as I said is pretty poor. Also, most of these NPC's would have some backup as they are just a representation of whatever force/group they belong to.

[Doubtful]

Avanthyr, Sundren City and Sestra aren't really considered Faction HQs, the faction HQs in those places would be the Blackwood Barracks, Legion Chapter House and Sestra Keep (Avanthyr isn't currently considered a faction as such) - However they are towns/cities and as such shouldn't be stormed anyway without a DM to oversee and control the natives.


/picky

[Farmboy2003]

I Was pvp'ed without warning in the necropolis. GM artemis was there. I Was told that pvp without warning were legally done in that situation - as it was a faction area, but is it really a general dungeon instead?

it would be nice to have sort of information stickied...

[Doubtful]

The Necropolis is associated with the Myrkulites but is not considered a faction HQ, some members of the Myrkulite faction do hang out there (rather suitably) and will sometimes engage in PvP.

Most of the time they will offer conversation, threats and what not before engaging however there is no rule that states warning or quarter must be given. That said good etiquette says that when defending a faction related area players should take into account the feelings of other members and remember that it is a dungeon zone as well.

[Farmboy2003]

The Necropolis is associated with the Myrkulites but is not considered a faction HQ, some members of the Myrkulite faction do hang out there (rather suitably) and will sometimes engage in PvP.

Most of the time they will offer conversation, threats and what not before engaging however there is no rule that states warning or quarter must be given. That said good etiquette says that when defending a faction related area players should take into account the feelings of other members and remember that it is a dungeon zone as well.

-Please do not engage in PvP if your target is in combat with NPCs unless you are affiliated with the NPCs' faction. The AI is not smart enough to know there are two targets to attack instead of one, which creates an unrealistic match. If you are part of their faction, they wouldn't attack you, so the rule is moot.

This were ignored, and I was to understand that it was well and good, since it was a faction area. I don't have a beef with anyone involved, and I'm sure they know who they are - But it would be very nice to have a concise knowledge about this in the future. I'm not a pvp enthusiast, but if I have to eat grass I'd much rather do it with some drama and some RP involved, instead of just being clubbed to death while dealing with spawns (and a DM plot to boot). I wouldn't start marching on Sestra, right, but the necropolis seems another bi'ness...

So are the Necropolis a faction HQ, where some PVP rules are overridden or is it not?

And waitamin.. I can't jump someone in the tradepost as a blackwood member, since there's non-hostile NPC's there, but I can be jumped in an area full of hostile spawns no problem? That seems strange - or is it one of the pro's of being evil?

(sorry for derailing this thread)

[Doubtful]

This were ignored, and I was to understand that it was well and good, since it was a faction area. I don't have a beef with anyone involved, and I'm sure they know who they are - But it would be very nice to have a concise knowledge about this in the future. I'm not a pvp enthusiast, but if I have to eat grass I'd much rather do it with some drama and some RP involved, instead of just being clubbed to death while dealing with spawns (and a DM plot to boot). I wouldn't start marching on Sestra, right, but the necropolis seems another bi'ness...

So are the Necropolis a faction HQ, where some PVP rules are overridden or is it not?

(sorry for derailing this thread)

The Necropolis is associated with the Myrkulites but is not considered a faction HQ, some members of the Myrkulite faction do hang out there (rather suitably) and will sometimes engage in PvP.

-Please do not engage in PvP if your target is in combat with NPCs unless you are affiliated with the NPCs' faction. The AI is not smart enough to know there are two targets to attack instead of one, which creates an unrealistic match. If you are part of their faction, they wouldn't attack you, so the rule is moot.

Essentially the rule is in place to try and stop people from ganking others while they're out in hostile spawnland; IE, no stabbing your enemies in the back while they're getting busy stabinating things in Mossdale.

Fairly obviously this would be a really, really stupid rule to keep in place for faction related areas - Forcing a PC to stand around cleaning his nails while he waits for the invading PC to finish killing off his friends and co-workers would just be dumb. Hence the work around where the NPC fighting rule is lifted in faction affiliated areas.

Back in the day there used to be several faction related (but not HQ) areas - Cartel Mountain, Cartel Caves, Schild Mountain, Necropolis. As the server has evolved most of these areas have been lost, the only remaining area of note is the Necropolis.

It is sad that the player didn't bother to engage in any RP - RP is always much more interesting than just blowing someone up, but alas that can be the way of things. We have no opt-out rule for PvP here and while warnings are encouraged and appreciated they are not set in stone as a must-have. As for the DM involved's opinion, well. They're no longer staff with us.

And waitamin.. I can't jump someone in the tradepost as a blackwood member, since there's non-hostile NPC's there, but I can be jumped in an area full of hostile spawns no problem? That seems strange - or is it one of the pro's of being evil?
(sorry for derailing this thread)

See, I know you want to be upset by yet another clear cut case of the staff encouraging evil and frowning on anyone who dares play good, but sadly this bit is all in your head.

The rules in question are partly mechanical, partly IC.

ICly, because it would be really dumb if we said 'Hey! Guys! Helping your own faction is a no-no. You MUST stand by and watch as they smash stuff up and kill your dudes' If you're going into a dungeon then you have a pretty good idea that most if not all of the things you meet in there are hostile to you. In effect the player you fight is just another monster - Yes, it's great if they RP, awesome even, if a good DM sees you getting your conflicty RP on and having some RP based awesomeness then yes they'll reward and encourage it, but as its a faction area and in effect the attacking PC is already being all hostile and stuff RP isn't a must.

Also, we don't tend to have dungeons that are full of non hostile NPCs that need DM oversight or control. Chances are you'll only be encountering monsters that want to eat your face, no AI or NPC hassle there.

Mechanically because the faction control system is really buggy. Just jumping someone in the tradepost can break all sorts of things all over the server - Anyone who remembers the fun of the (OOC) Legion Port Massacres will attest to this as PvP in the wrong places set factions against eachother everywhere.

Also, areas like the tradepost tend to be full of non hostile NPCs! DMs are kind of needed to try and A: Stop stuff breaking. B: Ensure the faction NPCs behave correctly (Lots of people have been beaten to death by their own faction for not thinking about the shonky game engines reactions). C: Ensuring the non-combat npcs behave correctly - Running away, screaming, getting help etc.


Anyway, hope that clears the rules up for you.

[Farmboy2003]

See, I know you want to be upset by yet another clear cut case of the staff encouraging evil and frowning on anyone who dares play gnomes, but sadly this bit is all in your head.

I don't know about you, but I really prefer to keep most of my bits inside my head. I wasn't pointing any fingers, in fact it sounded like a fair division of Pro/Cons.

I can't help but being slightly upset/annoyed by being ganked without the fun and ensuing RP it could entail - but that's just how it is. I'm trying to get informed 'bout stuff, by using my past experiences. It's when you get the bits inside your head to make other bits.

I can't see if the myrkulites/Black hands are treated as non-hostiles by the spawns there, I don't have any such character. So it's a grey area! The rules are fairly straight to understand, it's more of the nature of the necropolis area I was unsure about.

[Saulus]

The long and the short of it is, we designed faction HQs not to be accessible by people who aren't in the faction (unless they were captured or whatever). That being the case, sometimes glitches happen making this possible which is why we have the rule not to storm the faction HQ.

Some faction HQs are public-accessible like the Thayan Enclaave and Legion HQ, but they have private rooms.

In the cases where there is a dungeon, we always try to design the faction HQ as a hidden part of the dungeon, to help avoid any confusion.

[Doubtful]

*gnome rage*

Sorry, saw red there for a moment!

Yeah, those in the relevant factions aren't hostile to the faction related NPCs, but they should have toggled hostile on you so they'll be nice and red!

The area status is Mostly Dungeon - It's a place where lots of characters go and fight spawns but it is related to the Mykulite subfaction of the Black Hand, as such you may occasionally encounter related PCs there who might take a dim view on people killing their dudes! Likewise people may take a dim view of them helping stinking undead things. In the past there's been discussions on having good aligned dungeons and so on, so evil can kill good things but also run the risk of running into faction related defenders.

Getting ganked without RP is pretty poor and personally I normally have a strong dislike for it, but it is allowed. There are pros and cons to having an opt out rule that aren't really worth getting into here.

[thaelis]

Thanks for the clarification guys! As for ganking without any RP or even OOC tell as a warning, I personally wouldn't do it but wouldn't take any offence at someone else doing it though.

It would make me wonder why they're bothering to do it at all though, as it doesn't advance either party's RP if not a single word is exchanged, and you simply take advantage of them being outnumbered and slaughter them. It would almost appear that they're doing it for OOC reasons. Ha! That's what you get for entering the Necropolis punk!

Anyway, its good to know which areas to avoid, and the couple I can legitimately go and explore now, cheers!

P.s. I entered the Wyntir estate via Dimension door, so maybe make that spell unusable in there?

The gates in the Mossdale Graveyard are a puzzle leading up to a boss fight.

Has anyone ever solved said puzzle, out of interest? I can see a lot of named sarcophagi, as well as obviously the big locked gate. Nothing seems interact-able though, just examinable.

Is it in any way worth solving?

[Cornuto]

Its able to be solved, as I've seen other people do it. The couple times I've tried it, the objects I'm using don't seem to match up to the guess I want to make and I end up just leaving as there isn't really anything too rewarding back that way anyway.