Nature Faction 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Raksha]

So yet again, some PCs are coming together to try to breathe a spark of life back into something resembling a place for nature- or primal-oriented characters. However, before we get too involved IC, I wanted to start an OOC discussion on the matter.

1. What was wrong, either from player PoV or staff, with the previous Wardens of the Vale? Obviously, the faction was OOC felt to not be a good part of the server, and got nuked into oblivion with no replacement. What went wrong?

2. What plans are already in place for this? PC initiative is great, but if there are already areas built and lore developed, it's wise for us not to contradict ourselves.

[OnyxTigress]

I don't think the staff necessarily thought there was anything wrong with the Wardens, just that they were pretty much out of place in the setting and with how the story was going.

[greypawn]

The problem is that people think there is a problem when things change. Change is scary. And instead of embracing it and looking for new role play opportunities, we QQ because we didn't get our way. Rolling with the bad things that happen to your character is part of good role play.

[Raksha]

... I'm ... not aware that there was qq'ing? This is more an effort to try to create and embrace new role play opportunity without directly contradicting what staff has in mind.

@Onyx: How did the earlier faction not fit the server? Was the issue that the base was too fixed? That the eco-terrorists thing wasn't working?

[wangxiuming]

If I remember correctly, there was mention that the new druid faction would be based in or around Icewind Dale.

[Raksha]

Just found that, actually! A cool thread from about a year ago:

http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthr...ure+faction%22

That answers at least some of my questions, though now I'm curious if the statements made then still hold true.

[FoogooFish]

Yes. Here's an excerpt from a recent thread:

You could actually say its a great time to roll up a nature based character because we are still working out the new faction with the new areas. If you get involved now, stay active, and stay dedicated then you may see some interesting times. And you definitely have clear goals of restoring balance and what not, so figuring out what to do with your pc should be easy enough. You'll just have to exercise some patience as the developer todo list is long.

[Torgar]

I played as a member of the wardens for a while, and from my own PoV, they were simply very stagnant. Their only interest was the forest, which they didn't do anything with because it was a low level grinding area and that's about it. They, more often then not, burned any bridges that they made with any faction or individual not part of their faction. And, in the end, they just had no direction to go in at the time. They had no real purpose, they simply existed, and on this server simply existing is not viable.

The Sundren faction, consisting of the Legion, Hands of mundus, and Helm, have a purpose. They have goals, ambitions. They have plans they enact and act upon, they can actually strive for change. They want things to change in some fashion. They are dynamic. Things have changed a lot in all three factions. It's why it's survived, why every time it starts to falter, it surges again. It doesn't exist, it breathes and lives.

The Black Hand is similar in that regard. They have plans, they have a purpose, goals they strive for. They enact change, they are a dynamic force. When they falter, new life easily comes in to renew it. They've evolved.

Some factions were culled because they didn't make sense, and were basically absorbed into other factions. The Kurz Cartel, which was once one half of the Ebon Coin faction, needed to go. They had no real purpose, they were simply the level 7-9 grinding area that happened to have PC members. That didn't work in the end, because they had no plans to enact, and had no interest in changing or evolving. With no way to grow and no desire to grow, they needed to go away to make room for something else. In the end, the Ebon coin is stronger for being the sole representative of their faction, without bandits to slow down their plans. Guarding a mountain stronghold was an odd move for thieves, and I think what the coin does now is far more appropriate.

Likewise, similar problems arose with the CDG, or Corps de Grace for those unfamiliar with the abbreviation. The Corps simply sat their in Sestra, never evolving or enacting any sort of plans after they established themselves. They languished, and never really improved themselves or the place they were at. I'd like to qualify I liked the members well enough, but a faction based around just being a single militia only ever interested in a single town and not ever caring what happens anywhere outside that town doesn't work as a server-sponsored faction. Now, player based faction, sure. But not something that server resources are thrown at to support. They just didn't have room to become something more, or different. So, once Sestra was invaded they were simply absorbed into Blackwood when they fled to Avanthyr.

In fact, the Arbiters alliance as a whole had the same problem. What I'm getting at, is the Wardens of Nature at the time simply refused to change with the times, and so were left in the dust when the server evolved.

That being said, there is certainly room for a nature faction on Sundren, provided they can do two things.

1. Allow for the inclusion of all classes. Every general (and by general, I mean Sundren faction, Black hand, Ebon coin, Triad) faction, not subfactions but the general overall faction must include the ability to incorporate every base class in it's ranks. I'm not saying that every class will join, or will want too, but if some rogue wants to stay pure rogue but wants to play as a nature rogue, the faction needs to be able to incorporate that. Exclusions will only ensure a small number of people wish to join, and that will ensure the faction never really comes to be.

2. The faction has to have a plan beyond just "Sit in our house and don't acknowledge there is a world outside our house." That was a major problem with the factions I mentioned above, and that's a big reason they had to go. It doesn't matter if you don't want to get involved and want to stay neutral, that's totally acceptable. But trying to pretend that nothing outside your faction in any way affects your faction, and doesn't even exist is just ridiculous. You have to have a plan to move forward, to interact with the others, to further your goals. The faction itself needs to be a living, breathing entity with an ability to evolve.

Sorry for all of that extra stuff, sometimes I get very long winded explaining a point. Also, those interested in a nature faction should follow the advice of some of their peers and seek out a certain noble whose family was once close to the wardens. The Ulsteris are seeking all the wardens and all nature lovers to their lands in hopes of repairing the damage done by the city rising, and some other plans that are better to discuss IC. Just saying.

[Daimondheart]

I'm joining with Raksha on the PC initiative of this but don't really have anything to say as far as the OOC side of things are concerned. I was only within the Wardens very briefly, but found it rather interesting if a bit quirky at times. I'm just going along with what seems natural to me as I role play Cora as she goes about with her ambitions. I'd rather just stick with the role play and not get overly involved in any OOC "arguments."

[Daimondheart]

I'm going to partially retract my statement as I was making my quickie post wile RPing and didn't see the newer ones. I actually do have a vision of sorts with this renewal that will cater to both issues brought up by Torgar.

1) I agree that I would very much like to find a way to allow all classes to join in on this faction. I ran into a similar problem when my animal cleric tried to join the Wardens and no one really knew how to handle her since she wasn't a druid. I already have some ideas going IC that those involved will soon learn about if they haven't already.

2) I also have plans to make this faction anything but a sit on your backside faction. I see plenty of reasons for the nature faction to become more involved in the story as well as to expand their -control-. If any of the DMs are interested in what exactly I have in mind, just let me know whom to send them to. I'd rather not post them here and spoil the surprises.

[Lotus]

The old nature faction alliance was basically shoehorned in by a dev who wanted it, disregarding server lore and having no useful place in the overall plot. We had an opportunity to make it go away from an IC standpoint, so we made it go away, clearing the way for a new nature faction that will better fit the server's environment and plot and with more opportunities for PCs to guide its development.

[Daimondheart]

I was a bit iffy on making this initiative due to what had happened to the old faction as well as misinformation I received from an ex-member of the staff. But now that I know the faction's true "origins," the progression of things does make sense. This is a relief for me.

As Raksha stated in her first post, we're more than willing to work with what the staff already has planned. Please let us know, in one form or another, what to do to mesh our character's current actions with yours.

[Doubtful]

I also have plans to make this faction anything but a sit on your backside faction. I see plenty of reasons for the nature faction to become more involved in the story as well as to expand their -control-. If any of the DMs are interested in what exactly I have in mind, just let me know whom to send them to. I'd rather not post them here and spoil the surprises.

I'd suggest using the Character Request forum to open a general discussion with the staff, that way we can all get involved without other players being able to sneak a peak.


First up, sorry about being a little bit late with my reply to this! It's been a crazy few days running about all over the place and today is the first bit of unreserved time I've had!

Now, nature faction - Personally I love a group of filthy stinking animal loving druids and hangers on as much as the next person, during my time as a player they were probably my second favorite faction over all (The Veritas being my first factionly love. Ah, how I miss your bittersweet days). But as has been said the Wardens as they were had deep, deep flaws and a severe justification issue. Thankfully, as Lotus rightly says, we had the opportunity to ICly remove the shoe-horned in faction.

The Icewind Dale expension should allow us to introduce a much more lore-appropriate nature faction, something suited to the icy north.

Any group trying to establish themselves would do well to listen to the advice posted by Torgar, he makes many very valid points.

Also pay close attention to server lore, if there is any doubt it's easy enough to ask for IC or OOC clarification. While the map of the valley may look green and inviting it is in fact largely green and unpleasant - Like sharks on a pool table.

Some deities are more suited to working as a bridge between factions and environments than others, so keep in mind the implications of which diety you're going to be promoting as a figure head.

To my mind one of the biggest issues the old grove had was that it was trapped deep in the traditional fantasy rut of Nature=Forest. Where were the plains druids, the mountain druids, the coastal druids, the saltmarsh druids, the farmland druids, the urban druids? Unless you hugged oak you didn't fit in. That's a shame.

A decent nature orientated faction needs to take all this into account, it needs to be balanced and grow organically around the diverse player base and IG locations - Don't try to recreate what was once here, it was removed for a reason. Consider the game world and develop it from there.

For a good nature group the whole game world is holy and a place to meet, exchange ideas and do things. All that is needed for a faction hub is a place that bridges the various worlds and environments that the server encompasses.

Anyway, I can rant more if needed, just poke me with a stick.

[sonuvalich]

As there is not a great fit faction for Lathanderites right now, I would be happy to have Artemis serve as a bridge between civilized factions and the smelly hippie society. She already all about sunshine, the great outdoors, and the natural order.

[Daimondheart]

Sure thing, Doubtful. I'll post my ideas on a new topic there later. Like I said, we're both more than willing to work with the staff on this, but we can't just have our characters suddenly give up on their current goal. Even if the old faction was shoe horned it, it did exist and left an impression on our characters as well as others still on the server. It's natural for them to attempt to restore what was lost, especially when there are numerous reasons to drive them to do so. I think a forest tainted by Talona would drive just about any nature based character to fix it.

I think if this transition into Icewind Dale is going to work, there needs to be a little give and take between both the players and the staff. Even though the old grove has been destroyed, it still existed, and so its existence must be counted for. Nobody likes to end a story with, "They all died or moved somewhere else. The End." The story of the Wardens of the Vale needs to have a proper ending before our characters can have reason to move on into the next story.