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  • #1

    Practised Spellcaster exploit/bug

    As several people are aware there is an unfortunate side effect to the Practised Spellcaster range of feats that allows some class combinations to gain en effective caster level higher than that of their actual character class.

    Just to be very clear on this: This is an exploit.


    If your characters are found using this feat to gain an extra high caster level, it will be removed. If you're using it at the moment then just let a DM know and we can remove the feat and let you pick an allowed feet to replace it with.

    I know there are lots of legitimate uses for the feat and we won't be removing those - But anyone with a Caster Level higher than Character Level will have it removed.

    For DMs, the feats in question are:
    1246 - Bard
    1247 - Cleric
    1248 - Druid
    1251 - Sorcerer
    1252 - Wizard
    It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little - Do what you can.
    Sydney Smith.
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  • #2
    I've taken this feat on Adeodatus and I have 2 level in a non-cleric class, but I still benefit from the remainder because of dreadmaster levels.

    I won't have it taken, will I?
    Lauan - knight of Thay " I have no fear, and death is merely an inconvenience to me. I do not die until ordered to do so, I do not fall until every last bit of life has left me. I stand tall, proud, a Thayan knight."

    Adeodatus Exitium -     "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart, for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." — James Baldwin

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    • #3
      I personally need it removed on my alt, but Adeo's point is something to keep in mind. Hopefully the feat will eventually get actually fixed since there are people who took it properly but still end up with more caster levels than their HD.
      -Arcanist Josirah Caranos, Red Wizard of Thay

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      • #4
        It would be nice to have it fixed, but the work involved is extensive to say the least - It would require a large customized spellcasting / spellhook system (apparently, coding is pretty much mystical smoke and mirrors to me).

        In answer to Gamlings issue:
        Originally posted by Doubtful
        anyone with a Caster Level higher than Character Level will have it removed.
        It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little - Do what you can.
        Sydney Smith.

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Doubtful
          I know there are lots of legitimate uses for the feat and we won't be removing those - But anyone with a Caster Level higher than Character Level will have it removed.
          I think my use of the feat is completely legitimate and non-exploitative since I have two classes that do not give cleric CL. The whole point to taking the feat was to negate this effect and wasn't to exploit the Dreadmaster PRC.

          I don't know if this makes a difference but I think this should be taken into consideration, along with any others who are in a similar situation.
          Lauan - knight of Thay " I have no fear, and death is merely an inconvenience to me. I do not die until ordered to do so, I do not fall until every last bit of life has left me. I stand tall, proud, a Thayan knight."

          Adeodatus Exitium -           "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart, for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." — James Baldwin

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gamling View Post
            I think my use of the feat is completely legitimate and non-exploitative since I have two classes that do not give cleric CL. The whole point to taking the feat was to negate this effect and wasn't to exploit the Dreadmaster PRC.

            I don't know if this makes a difference but I think this should be taken into consideration, along with any others who are in a similar situation.
            That is true, but also the fact is that you will dispel AND resist dispels as a 24th level caster. Which some people might consider overpowered, since its like getting the Resist Dispel feat, plus tougher dispels, plus it can stack with the Resist Dispel feat aswell.

            EDIT: Then again I'm sure Adeo took those 2 extra levels for RP reasons rather than making a powerbuild. If thats the case then maybe he shouldn't be penalised... *hmms*
            UTC+8
            Yes, I realise my RP writing sucks. Just be thankful I keep it short

            Characters
            Thalanis Moonshadow

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            • #7
              There's no denying that there will be some unfortunate cases where a legitimate use of the feat has resulted in characters having a higher caster level than character level, but we have to draw a line somewhere on this. An accidental SCL 22/CL 20 is just as bad as the same thing being gained intentionally. In this regard the bug/exploit really is an annoying oversight from Obsidian.

              The simple fact remains however that a character should NOT have a higher spellcasting level than his actual character level, be it gained by accident or design.

              We'll not be passing judgement on you as a player or your character as a concept by removing this problematic feat from casters, simply trying to patch yet another hole in the leaky Obsidian ship.
              It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little - Do what you can.
              Sydney Smith.

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Doubtful View Post
                The simple fact remains however that a character should NOT have a higher spellcasting level than his actual character level, be it gained by accident or design.
                I can understand exploiting a feat to do things it isn't intended, but that being the line of reasoning actually worries me a bit. The Red Wizard class is based on the ability to raise a person's caster level beyond their character level. Kaeldorn hurt Red Wizards a bit with this kind of thinking.
                Last edited by The Butcher; 09-22-2012, 07:52 AM. Reason: My original post sounded much more whiney than I intended
                Ramza Xantheus "...for a meager fee, of course."

                "                Heroes need the weak to feel important. I say, teach the weak the skills they need to live on their own, to protect themselves and break free of the chains of charity and victimization. The Triad needs people to protect. I need people to succeed." -Byrun von Hellstrom

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Butcher View Post
                  The Red Wizard class is based on the ability to raise a person's caster level beyond their character level. Kaeldorn hurt Red Wizards a bit with this kind of thinking.
                  Is the Red Wizard PRC the Practiced Spellcaster feat? No? Right.

                  Edit: You de whined your post, but the reply still stands - This is to do with a specific range of feat/class combos that raise the characters spellcaster level past the point the feat intends it to be at. From the feats description:

                  Your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class increases by +4. This can't increase your caster level beyond your HD.
                  Unfortunately that last part can be worked around, either by accident or intention, resulting in a character who uses this feat getting a higher caster level than HD. That is what we need to remove, not existing legitimate classes who have CL raising features built in.
                  It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little - Do what you can.
                  Sydney Smith.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    gooby pls
                    Lauan - knight of Thay " I have no fear, and death is merely an inconvenience to me. I do not die until ordered to do so, I do not fall until every last bit of life has left me. I stand tall, proud, a Thayan knight."

                    Adeodatus Exitium -                     "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart, for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." — James Baldwin

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Butcher View Post
                      The Red Wizard class is based on the ability to raise a person's caster level beyond their character level. Kaeldorn hurt Red Wizards a bit with this kind of thinking.
                      Sure, but thats fine...because the Red Wizards sacrifice a lot in order to get their +1, +2 etc spellpower. Someone who takes this feat gets what a Red Wizard gets over (10?) prestige class levels in one feat and it applies to all of the spell schools not just one!
                      UTC+8
                      Yes, I realise my RP writing sucks. Just be thankful I keep it short

                      Characters
                      Thalanis Moonshadow

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by thaelis View Post
                        Sure, but thats fine...because the Red Wizards sacrifice a lot in order to get their +1, +2 etc spellpower. Someone who takes this feat gets what a Red Wizard gets over (10?) prestige class levels in one feat and it applies to all of the spell schools not just one!
                        I understand the difference.

                        Originally posted by Doubtful View Post
                        The simple fact remains however that a character should NOT have a higher spellcasting level than his actual character level, be it gained by accident or design.
                        Made me think that other people may not. Doubtful clarified that he did; I am fine with this.
                        Ramza Xantheus "...for a meager fee, of course."

                        "                        Heroes need the weak to feel important. I say, teach the weak the skills they need to live on their own, to protect themselves and break free of the chains of charity and victimization. The Triad needs people to protect. I need people to succeed." -Byrun von Hellstrom

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by thaelis View Post
                          Sure, but thats fine...because the Red Wizards sacrifice a lot in order to get their +1, +2 etc spellpower. Someone who takes this feat gets what a Red Wizard gets over (10?) prestige class levels in one feat and it applies to all of the spell schools not just one!
                          Spell Power applies to all schools, not just the RW's specialization.
                          -Arcanist Josirah Caranos, Red Wizard of Thay

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rhifox View Post
                            Spell Power applies to all schools, not just the RW's specialization.
                            Oh! Did not know that. Having come from being a longtime PnP player there's a lot of stuff that I just take for granted as being identical to Pnp.

                            Anyway, thanks.

                            *will be significantly more scared of Red Wizards from now on*
                            UTC+8
                            Yes, I realise my RP writing sucks. Just be thankful I keep it short

                            Characters
                            Thalanis Moonshadow

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rhifox View Post
                              Spell Power applies to all schools, not just the RW's specialization.
                              This isn't true -- not entirely. I don't want to state the true case.
                              Ramza Xantheus "...for a meager fee, of course."

                              "                              Heroes need the weak to feel important. I say, teach the weak the skills they need to live on their own, to protect themselves and break free of the chains of charity and victimization. The Triad needs people to protect. I need people to succeed." -Byrun von Hellstrom

                              Comment

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