Class Review: Sorcerer

[Dragor]

Class Review: Sorcerer

NWN Definition: “Sorcerers cast arcane spells through innate power rather than through careful training and study. Their magic is intuitive rather than logical. Sorcerers know fewer spells than wizards do and acquire powerful spells more slowly than wizards, but they can cast spells more often and have no need to select and prepare their spells ahead of time. Sorcerers do not specialize in certain schools of magic the way wizards sometimes do. Since sorcerers gain their powers without undergoing the years of rigorous study that wizards go through, they don't have the background of arcane knowledge than most wizards have. However, they do have more time to learn fighting skills, and they are proficient with simple weapons.”

FRwiki Definition: “A sorcerer, sometimes known as a sorceress if female, is a wielder of arcane magic bound only by their own willpower. Unlike most other arcanists, particularly the wizards they are often compared with, sorcerers have innate magical ability and are noted for their lack of study in obtaining such power. And while a wizard focuses on isolating their foes and diminishing their ability to fight, a sorcerer prefers to unleash his or her full power, without restraint, blasting their enemies into oblivion. The magic a sorcerer wields is, as a result, intensely powerful though often somewhat unpredictable, much like a barbarian in the heat of a rage.”

http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sorcerer
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer

MY VIEW

Sorcerers are innate spellcasters with varying backgrounds that grant them their innate arcane power. The background of a sorcerer should play a heavy role in RPing a sorcerer, if it doesn’t then the player is really missing out.

I have a soft spot for this class because it can have “deep roots” like a divine class but maintains a large degree of flexibility on how it can be played due to no alignment restrictions.

I’ve decided to risk creating a firestorm by doing a short review like this on all the base and PrC classes available on Sundren and ask for the communities input on anything related to that class such as RP tactics, personal views, lore tidbits, and character build strategies.
Keep it clean, thanks

[Mournas]

I highly dislike spontaneous spell casters, most of all Sorcerers. FVS is okayish in my book cause a god gives them the powers to do so. Sorcerers are an anathema and they need to be cleansed from the face of Faerun ... I dislike the idea of undisciplined minds being able to just WILL something to happen a number of times a day. The Sorcerer is not so bad if he actually makes an attempt to understand and study magics.

In my opinion Sorcs and FVS should have a DM choose the spells that the character can cast or maybe just half of them. The fact that you just get the powers does not mean the PC should get to choose the powers.

Though with proper study and research, I would allow a Sorcerer to exchange spells, the process however would be extremely taxing and I would say 1 week of rest per spell level swapped or deal with some sort of Arcane Spell Failure (probably 10% ASF/per spell level) for basically ripping apart a bond that basically ties your soul to the weave.

[roguethree]

FVS is okayish in my book cause a god gives them the powers to do so. Sorcerers are an anathema and they need to be cleansed from the face of Faerun ... I dislike the idea of undisciplined minds being able to just WILL something to happen a number of times a day.

I disagree with you precisely because of your logic. The weave can be capricious, and there are numerous events in FR canon illustrating this. A god giving someone powers for no other reason than "Ehhh, let's see how this works out" is pretty silly.

[Mournas]

A god giving someone powers for no other reason than "Ehhh, let's see how this works out" is pretty silly.

It is pretty silly, though I can see it happening more so than someone having the ability to just toss the weave around as if it was a childs play thing.

[Dragor]

I highly dislike spontaneous spell casters, most of all Sorcerers. FVS is okayish in my book cause a god gives them the powers to do so. Sorcerers are an anathema and they need to be cleansed from the face of Faerun ... I dislike the idea of undisciplined minds being able to just WILL something to happen a number of times a day. The Sorcerer is not so bad if he actually makes an attempt to understand and study magics.

In my opinion Sorcs and FVS should have a DM choose the spells that the character can cast or maybe just half of them. The fact that you just get the powers does not mean the PC should get to choose the powers.

Though with proper study and research, I would allow a Sorcerer to exchange spells, the process however would be extremely taxing and I would say 1 week of rest per spell level swapped or deal with some sort of Arcane Spell Failure (probably 10% ASF/per spell level) for basically ripping apart a bond that basically ties your soul to the weave.

"The Sorcerer is not so bad if he actually makes an attempt to understand and study magics."

A sorcerer who does not attempt to understand their talent should and probably would in a PnP campaign die in an epic magical failure. Simply because there is a difference between the words spontanious and innate. Spontanious implies no control, and any kind of an innate caster, due to how they are in touch with their powers, with no control is in effect a nuculer meltdown.

While some forms of sorcerer get their power by being in touch with the elemental chaos, even they have to strive for some control to avoid dying spectacularly, limited unpredictability if you will, defined as carefully chosing to do something knowing that something else will likely happen at the same time.

I look at it as a sorcerer has all the power they will have from the beginiing and each spell they learn represents a (semi)controlled outlet for that innate power.


"In my opinion Sorcs and FVS should have a DM choose the spells that the character can cast or maybe just half of them. The fact that you just get the powers does not mean the PC should get to choose the powers."

Those would make very good table top rules for a game you DM someday.

Players should carefully consider each spell they chose. They should always ask if it goes with their charachters personality and background, this is true for all spellcasting classes.



"Though with proper study and research, I would allow a Sorcerer to exchange spells, the process however would be extremely taxing and I would say 1 week of rest per spell level swapped or deal with some sort of Arcane Spell Failure (probably 10% ASF/per spell level) for basically ripping apart a bond that basically ties your soul to the weave."

I disagree with this entirely, a sorcerer should not get to exchange spells at all, you do not just forget how to do something.

Also the reason FS outperform Sorc's is not in any feats or resistances it is in the fact that FS's get more spells...look at the progression for FS and Sorc/SS it is literally rediculous. The ability to spam spell mantle 12 times takes away any advantage disjunction gives you as a sorc.

[Mournas]

"The Sorcerer is not so bad if he actually makes an attempt to understand and study magics."

A sorcerer who does not attempt to understand their talent should and probably would in a PnP campaign die in an epic magical failure. Simply because there is a difference between the words spontanious and innate. Spontanious implies no control, and any kind of an innate caster, due to how they are in touch with their powers, with no control is in effect a nuculer meltdown.

While some forms of sorcerer get their power by being in touch with the elemental chaos, even they have to strive for some control to avoid dying spectacularly, limited unpredictability if you will, defined as carefully chosing to do something knowing that something else will likely happen at the same time.

I look at it as a sorcerer has all the power they will have from the beginiing and each spell they learn represents a (semi)controlled outlet for that innate power.


"In my opinion Sorcs and FVS should have a DM choose the spells that the character can cast or maybe just half of them. The fact that you just get the powers does not mean the PC should get to choose the powers."

Those would make very good table top rules for a game you DM someday.

Players should carefully consider each spell they chose. They should always ask if it goes with their charachters personality and background, this is true for all spellcasting classes.



"Though with proper study and research, I would allow a Sorcerer to exchange spells, the process however would be extremely taxing and I would say 1 week of rest per spell level swapped or deal with some sort of Arcane Spell Failure (probably 10% ASF/per spell level) for basically ripping apart a bond that basically ties your soul to the weave."

I disagree with this entirely, a sorcerer should not get to exchange spells at all, you do not just forget how to do something.

Also the reason FS outperform Sorc's is not in any feats or resistances it is in the fact that FS's get more spells...look at the progression for FS and Sorc/SS it is literally rediculous. The ability to spam spell mantle 12 times takes away any advantage disjunction gives you as a sorc.

Word.

You have some good stuff to say about them. I dislike them as a class as a whole, Innate or Spontaneous it still stands ill with me. The thing on swapping spells is just in the rules to allow them to do such a thing. I don't really agree with it either. Sometimes you have to let the PCs have their way though.

[Torgar]

If I happened across a favored soul who's only defense was spell mantle, I would arc lightning him and LOLOLOLOL for the rest of the fight, because it does not protect against spells that do not allow SR. As for the class of Sorceror, the point was already made and agreed upon that the weave is unpredictable, and sorceror's have an innate connection to it. Why shouldn't, with study and practice, they be able to alter the flow of the weave through them, thus altering the spells they are able to cast with said weave? I understand not liking the class, but if you take away it's ability to switch out spells, then you've taken away the one of the last things that makes it viable not just for a PW, but for a game run by a DM in PnP. The ability to fix the mistakes of choosing spells that simply have no use or application within the PW or PnP world you are in is pivotal in playing the class enjoyably, both for the player, and from the perspective of the DM, who does not like having to deal with a whiny player who hates half his spells because they don't help, or are too weak and he knows of alternates that he could use, but for some reason the same cosmic power that gave him arcane energy, was too dumb to let him alter it.

Just my opinion on that.

[Mournas]

If I happened across a favored soul who's only defense was spell mantle, I would arc lightning him and LOLOLOLOL for the rest of the fight, because it does not protect against spells that do not allow SR. As for the class of Sorceror, the point was already made and agreed upon that the weave is unpredictable, and sorceror's have an innate connection to it. Why shouldn't, with study and practice, they be able to alter the flow of the weave through them, thus altering the spells they are able to cast with said weave? I understand not liking the class, but if you take away it's ability to switch out spells, then you've taken away the one of the last things that makes it viable not just for a PW, but for a game run by a DM in PnP. The ability to fix the mistakes of choosing spells that simply have no use or application within the PW or PnP world you are in is pivotal in playing the class enjoyably, both for the player, and from the perspective of the DM, who does not like having to deal with a whiny player who hates half his spells because they don't help, or are too weak and he knows of alternates that he could use, but for some reason the same cosmic power that gave him arcane energy, was too dumb to let him alter it.

Just my opinion on that.

I can agree with this, though I would never give a PC useless spells. When I allow a PC to pick their spells then I review them and if I think that the character would not get them then I would change the spells. No reason a Sorc who is running around claiming to be infused by the elements of Ice should be lobbing off fireballs etc.

[Kaizen]

I'm going to stretch a metaphor here and compare my bike riding skillz to that of a fireball slinging demi-god. Try to keep up.

Do you know how I got better at riding a motorcycle?

By continually riding a motorcycle.

A sorcerer gets better with his spells ... by casting his/her spells - represented IC by ... levels.

I don't know how a motorcycle works. I know there is a clutch, a shift gear, a back break pedal, a front break lever and a throttle. That is all. I don't know the intricates of it's two cylinder engine or what 600 CCs of engine really does.

A sorcerer is not a wizard. He/she doesn't need to understand his spells completely to cast them. Just that he/she has this innate gift - as far as he/she is concerned, the only thing to know is how to cast them, and what happens when he/she does.

A sorcerer is awesome roleplay. Let's not confuse them with the wizard.

[Seheren]

I agree.. This is precisely why so many wizards dislike/hate Sorcs. They are dangerous and many times undisciplined.

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

They are dangerous and many times undisciplined.

Coincidentally most people feel like this about ALL magic users in the realms. Most of them don't know or even care about the difference, the lot of them are dangerous and ought be stoned to death while tied to a burning pyre in a lake.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Qara in the OC was one example of why I hate sorcerors. Bodyknock from NWN1 was another. Not a bad class, I just dont like them and since I dont care enough about them as a class I have little else to say

[Peridan]

Personally, I love this class and the role play opportunities it presents. The concept of the Weave as a living thing (being part of Mystra) is a great concept, and the sorcerer can have a deep and powerful connection to it that most characters can't even comprehend.

The wizard may be able to figure it out, the divine casters get it filtered through their gods, and druids can access a portion of it, but the sorcerer understands the Weave deep in the marrow of his bones. Combine it with metamagic, and you have a caster that can warp and shape the Weave at will.

And the Weave is expansive. It touches everything, dead or alive. When I picture an epic level sorcerer, you know what I see?

[Thief Of Navarre]

Personally, I love this class and the role play opportunities it presents. The concept of the Weave as a living thing (being part of Mystra) is a great concept, and the sorcerer can have a deep and powerful connection to it that most characters can't even comprehend.

The wizard may be able to figure it out, the divine casters get it filtered through their gods, and druids can access a portion of it, but the sorcerer understands the Weave deep in the marrow of his bones. Combine it with metamagic, and you have a caster that can warp and shape the Weave at will.

And the Weave is expansive. It touches everything, dead or alive. When I picture an epic level sorcerer, you know what I see?

Yoda is blatently a psionic character.

[pidcocjn]

I see the similarity between the Weave and the Force.

But Yoda can't even cast magic missile.