Class Review: Ranger

[Thief Of Navarre]

I don't believe what I'm reading.

Archer ranger with the appropriately chosen favored enemies (not hard to do with a PW) is awesome, especially if level 21 is a possibility. HiPS, improved favored enemy, Bane of Enemies, One Shot: things die.

Once you reach level 21. Exactly! I play a mid level ranger and trying to damage anything is tricky even with my +1D6 fire mighty longbow. I dont know what rules the zombies outside argyle are playing with but they are highly resistant to attacks. The possessed peasants seem to fall easily enough though. Is it slashing you need or something? Cold iron doesnt seem to have any effect on them.

Being persistantly less useful until you reach level 21 isnt handy. Especially when most PWs are geared to moderate level ranges.

[Doubtful]

Most archers will have huge problems against zombies, zombies have 5/slashing DR which can play havoc with the peircing damage caused by arrows. The peasants don't have the zombie DR so are easy to take down with cold iron arrows.

Personally I've never really had a problem with Rangers being underpowered, with the right feats they'll walk over most things - So long as you play to their strengths. If you get creative with the class and/or prcs you can make a stupendously potent damage dishing machine.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Most archers will have huge problems against zombies, zombies have 5/slashing DR which can play havoc with the peircing damage caused by arrows. The peasants don't have the zombie DR so are easy to take down with cold iron arrows.

Personally I've never really had a problem with Rangers being underpowered, with the right feats they'll walk over most things - So long as you play to their strengths. If you get creative with the class and/or prcs you can make a stupendously potent damage dishing machine.

I will let my divine monkeys take care of the zombies in future. Sacred fists seem to be rediculously effective. Not sure whether its the class ability or cleric spells supplementing their damage.

[Zoberraz]

Stick to Ranger, Thief. Raaanger.

RogueThree's remark struck me as naivete at first, but I just need to point out this is a review thread. Most review threads seem to focus at poking on what's wrong with the class. Not to mention not most of a ranger's life on a server is spent at level 21 with 'idealized' circumstances.

Of course things die when I shoot at them (even though the lofty 21 is yet beyond my reach - and that the things that typically die are lower AC/lower level as they allow me to use Manyshot at -8 to-hit penalty and not miss), but that doesn't mean there aren't pitfalls in other fields, or other circumstances. Of course, I'm long used to thinking around those limitations and picturing it like an elaborate Rock-Paper-Scissors... but if something's not quite right, I'm going to point it out.

The primary concern, from where I sit, is not being excess baggage in a group. Being a dependable presence and giving something out with my class role. I'll admit I envy people whom can square off against the ilk of Ruby/Mortannis/Clive and write in their bio that 'they repelled/misted them away' since my character can't do that... but that kind of wishful thinking is largely inconsequential to group play and feeling useful. More fun lies in that direction, and fun is way more important than ego boosting.

Doubtful has it right, but then again... DR 5 isn't such a big deal. DR 10 is ewwww. Anything beyond is, well, nasty. DR not failing if you're not using 2 properties, even worse.

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

To be fair that's more of an encounter design issue too. Sundren, if I have to complain about anything PvE wise is a little too focused on supernatural enemies in that awkward 10th-16th range where Argyle Keep and necropolis rule the day. Undead and high (understandably - they lack organs or cares for pain) DR enemies all over the place spell for a miserable time for rangers. Where they seem to excel is against no DR high AC enemies as most ranger abilities (in fact all) provide them with the freedom to work in their selected combat style with minimal feat expenditure so they can focus on things like IFE and such.

In short it'd be nice to see more mortal (as in not supernatural/otherworldly) dangers represented in that level range. WTB a troll cave (because it's the North of Faerun for crying out loud), a dangerous faction unaffiliated shadow druid encampment set up in a wood with rabid animals and that sort of thing as alternatives to Argyle and Necro grind for that level range. Such things are more traditional interests to rangers and things the class would be more suited to. Hell it certainly wouldn't hurt rogues in that level range either who are hurting to see "Sneak Attack" for about 6 levels when they hit that range.

[Satoshi]

Sundren has a very narrow vision of what it's storyline wants to deal with, and include in the PvE (and PvP, for that matter) environment. That's why it's highly unlikely we'll ever see much in the way of non-human settlements without a huge investment from the players and much crowing at Saulus. I have heard that there is a new leveling area replacing Veritas with something more sensible and rumors of a troll/giant den, though.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Yes. I think I may have jumped the gun abit. Enemies that have discernable anatomies and no rediculous weapon requirements to kill are quite good sport for a ranger; probably much the same as swashbucklers and rogues and everyone else who cant do 50+ damage on a regular hit. Once Lester hit lvl13 I knew his rogueish talents would never be needed outside of dialog, sad but true. He does tell a damn good lie though!

[pidcocjn]

Once Lester hit lvl13 I knew his rogueish talents would never be needed outside of dialog, sad but true. He does tell a damn good lie though!

Slightly off topic, but being relatively new to the server . . .

Are you saying certain classes (e.g., rogue) are useless outside of a certain level?

[Thief Of Navarre]

Slightly off topic, but being relatively new to the server . . .

Are you saying certain classes (e.g., rogue) are useless outside of a certain level?

Not useless, it just takes a certain build and a certain group of allies to accomplish things in high level areas where the armour classes and resistances border the obsurd. Lester wasn't thought through very well in terms of high level content because when I made him there was a timed level cap instead of the current flat cap of 20. Anything is possible, it just takes a bit of planning and the will to see it through without ragequitting

[pidcocjn]

Not useless, it just takes a certain build and a certain group of allies to accomplish things in high level areas where the armour classes and resistances border the obsurd. Lester wasn't thought through very well in terms of high level content because when I made him there was a timed level cap instead of the current flat cap of 20. Anything is possible, it just takes a bit of planning and the will to see it through without ragequitting

The bolded parts made me frown. Suppose I'll just have to figure things out as it goes.

[TheBrogueadier]

I've got two characters who are very rogue based and who've made it to high levels. One can happily waltz though much of the Mossdale (one of the three level 18+ dungeons) on his own pausing only to avoid the enemies that are traditionally problematic for his class (undead and plants).

The other is less of a soloist, but absolubtly shines in a group setting.

Rogues are naturally something of a supporting class and do tend to get mushed on their own.

I'd take concerns about insane ACs and resistances with a pinch of salt, rogues are very good at certain things, so do those things and avoid the things rogues are bad at.

The staff are apparantly also redoing the whole encounter system so its more ballanced toward parties, rather than toward pre-buffed godmonsters.

[Torgar]

I'm already leveling up a pure rogue as an archer. Now, is he worthless fighting on his own? Yes, I can't even really kill sharahan goblins on my own, and I'm already level 9. In a group? I devastate anything I flank with my bow, it's just silly the damage numbers for an archer at that level. But, that's just rogue in a nutshell. On their own, their damage is usually negligible, unless you are a feinter in melee, but with even just one person to back them up, or to back up however you want to look at it, they become one of the strongest classes around.

And people who go just one level rogue to pick up able learner, and who never RP having been a roguish person can burn in a fire.

As for ranger, for how underpowered they are, I sure get shown up by them a lot. Do they usually have pretty crappy hide/ms gear? Sure, I guess. As for Maia, she just had the unhappy pleasure of being around Tigen and the vampires, the first of which was made to spot and hear people who are hiding, and the other which gets a FAT bonus to the skills, and most of them have max ranks in the skills as well. So...yea, bad times for hiding rangers. Personally, I love the class. There's so many ways to roleplay it. You can be very nature oriented, shun society, and be the lone wolf huntsman sort of guy. Or, you can be the nature guide, showing people around, helping them avoid dangerous parts of the environment, and being knowledgeable of the flora and fauna of any given area.

Or you can pull out a bow or two weapons and tell things to sit down and die, because you are Ranger, hear you roar!

.....meow!

[pidcocjn]

The staff are apparantly also redoing the whole encounter system . . . pre-buffed godmonsters.[!?!?!?!?!?!]