Think Twice!

[Chiangtao]

This subject has been breeched a thousand times, and will never have a firm solution. Regardless, I'd like to ask that you think twice before you do something irrevocable to another PC. Consider the situations below, and discuss!

BTW, I'm all for hardcore. I'm pro-perma, for example. You make your bed, you lie in it. However, I've recently been faced with two situations where my bed has been made for me, and I think they were due to some questionable judgement calls by the other player.

1) The Ever-Vigilant Paladin Eyes

• The Situation in a Nut Shell:
  A group of PCs are chatting socially in the city.
  My character walks up to join the conversation.
  Paladin Fred, whom I have never met before, squints his eyes at me and pronounces me evil.
• My Take:
  Detect Evil is not passive. It is a free action, and thus requires decision and effort. For a paladin to use this ability on everyone he meets, without provocation, is silly. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.

2) Considerations Before Events

• The Situation in a Nutshell:
  We are preparing for a big DM event. Some PCs showed up early; others were still gathering. DMs asked us to wait patiently while they set up the event.
  PCs are speaking socially in the meantime.
  DMs are ready, and the event begins.
  Almost immediately, my character is publicly called out for having a "faint undead aura" in front of about ten PCs and an army of soldiers the DMs put in place.
• My Take:
  Understand that coordinating an event with multiple people, server-wide, takes time and effort. Getting people together for this requires OOC tells and considerations. One of these is understanding the duration of spells.
  Yes, my character always has a Non-Detection spell memorized. Should I have used it while the DMs asked us, OOCly, to wait? Does that passage of time "count" as IC? What happens when the spell then expires? Re-cast it in front of the army, unsuspiciously?
  Send me a simple tell before you do something like that. Consider the preparations going on around you, and that, even if your character likes to "blurt things out" ICly, there are OOC considerations to make. You can't reverse it once it's done.

I'd also like to state that the offending PCs who did this are very good roleplayers. I don't know them well, but they always offer descriptive, thoughtful roleplay, from what I've seen.

All thoughts are welcome. Like I said, I think this will be an on-going discourse that never changes in NWN2. But I hope to influence future decisions by bringing these events forward.

[Dragor]

1) The Ever-Vigilant Paladin Eyes

Personally I feel this has killed more RP than anything else I've seen done by a player on this server, of course the second biggest thing is fully buffed team evil attacking locations that Paladin Fred now stands without provocation or warning (simply because Paladin Fred killed this too).

The problem of course is that things lead to things. The campfire used to be where everyone hung out and "RP'ed". So naturally the group that stood around in the banite citidel and "RP'ed" there would want to come visit and have some excellent carachter interaction and cross alignment RP (note the lack of quotes on that one). So the evil nearly invincible vampire would teleport an extremely long ways in the dead of night and mosey on up to the fire and threaten everyone with fear and tyranny then pick up some wandering tramp on Tyr's Fork and teleport a very long way back to the citadel before they got a sunburn.

This led to various factions stationing a gaurd at the inn (officially unofficially IDK)...which led to some altercations...which led to the OC knowledge that Team Evil was violently aggressive toward the Second Wind, which led to Paladin Fred types.

Paladins shouldnt be paranoid anyway as paranoia is a form of fear, detect eviling everyone on sight is a paranoid act. RPing with chars and catching them when they slip up in a conversation (suspiscion not paranoia) is a great deal more fun for both parties.

2) Considerations Before Events

I do not feel this situation should ever come up as an event should not be relient on how many people show up and shouldnt be announced until it has started. (I think the DM's here are great and I know views differ on this, It is just an opinion)

[Saulus]

It's already been explained before people should not be metagaming their asses off with detect good/evil... You shouldn't be doing it to every person walking by just for shits and giggles.

If DMs see this kind of carebear behaviour there will be penalties for all who take party to these 'poor' RP habits.

[Lothoir]

• My Take:
  Detect Evil is not passive. It is a free action, and thus requires decision and effort. For a paladin to use this ability on everyone he meets, without provocation, is silly. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.

Detect evil is passive. You turn it on once at the start of the day and it stays running, just like Detect Undead.

I do apologize for the Undead thing though; I had arrived late and didn't think the DM's were having anyone wait oocl'y. That was on James though, and he's had such a problem with vampires and necromancers he took Persistent Spell feat solely to be able to Persist Detect Undead, which he always has running.

[Chiangtao]

Hah! Well, I ammend my #1 then. Sorry about that!

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Detect evil is not passive.

Detect Evil (Sp)

At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.

SRD 20

A paladin has to make a conscious effort and concentrate to use the spell, just like a cleric.

Detect Evil

Divination

Level: Clr 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 60 ft. Area: Cone-shaped emanation Duration: Concentration, up to 10 min./ level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No

And furthermore, I'm entirely against paladins turning it on at the beginning of the day and simply walking around with a radar until it turns off.

[Lothoir]

In game I mean. You click the button and it stays on forever, just like Detect Undead.

[Dragor]

In game I mean. You click the button and it stays on forever, just like Detect Undead.

Until you move

[Doubtful]

Detect evil is passive. You turn it on once at the start of the day and it stays running, just like Detect Undead.

Doh! Pipped to the post. Silly slow phone typing. Regardless, it's not permanent. It requires the caster to study whatever it is he's detecting.

[Catastrophe]

Not with how it works in game right now, though. If you are just standing there and hit detect evil, it will start working and stay working and detect everything that is evil for you in your line of sight.

[Doubtful]

Not even line of sight, just a bloody huge, long-lasting aura of detection.

Quick! Poke Corny with a stick and see if he can change it to a cone at the very least! (and preferably lower its duration a bit).

[Lothoir]

It is a cone. Sometimes I turn my PC around just to avoid the detection spam in my combat log.

[roguethree]

It is a line-of-sight cone.

Here's how detect evil works in game:

You cast it. It's on. If something evil is in your line of sight, it says, "You sense the presence of evil."

Stand still for a round, "You sense X evil auras. The strongest aura is Y."

Stand still for another round: "Steve has a weak evil aura. Tom has a moderate evil aura. Clive has an overwhelming evil aura."

If you start moving, it goes back to phase 1.

The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject.

Basically, it works pretty damn accurately in game. The paladin can use it at-will, and it only progresses if he's standing still, concentrating. Its implementation in game is excellent.

Furthermore, the paladin's code requires not associating with evil people, so he/she is well within his or her rights to detect people before undergoing any sort of quest. I don't do it myself, but I wouldn't begrudge any paladin for doing so.

[Standur]

Game mechanics are always going to cause awkward situations. I try to avoid them but I am not always successful. Walking in late on a conversation has caused me problems on the server with the disguise skill. If you come into a conversation after someone has emoted something or shared in some way ooc'ly they are in disguise and the player then turns off the little mask that hovers over their PC's head it's almost and RP trap. Sometimes all you can do is apologize and hope you didn't overly ruin anyone's RP.

I have gotten a bit better about asking players if they are in disguise before doing something from an RP perspective but I kind of feel like if I spend the time emoting that I am examining a PC closely they probably ought to click the little mask back on. Of course it is entirely possible that I just don't understand how the disguise skill works too.

[Doubtful]

It is a cone?

My wrongness hurts. Apologies, last time I was on as a Paladin it was a circular aura thing.