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  • Consumables

    My time on Sundren started with me playing melee characters exclusively. I was really unfamiliar with casters and didn't want to learn each spell and then manage how and when best to use them. So I stuck to those classes I began playing many years ago in PnP. Gradually, I migrated away from pure melee characters because I was never able to amass sufficient wealth to actually customize my gear, or gain access to better kit with a higher faction reputation requirement by donating to my faction.

    Each adventure I went on meant I needed a requisite collection of heal pots, bandages, barkskin pots, and the random bull strength, cat's grace, or bear endurance potions. These were already pricey. But, once the Luskan blockade took hold in Sundren the cost of these went up (and now down again thankfully). So I found myself earning money on my adventures only to reinvest nearly 50% back into potions or the like. Not so for my casters. They were able to use their divine skills to buff and heal. So the amount of coin these characters earned in comparison to my melee characters was significant. Consequently, my casters became easier to outfit better.

    I really hope this post doesn't start another melee vs. caster debate... Rather, I would like to offer up that we make the life blood of a melee character - potions and bandages, more affordable to them. This would mean any character that doesn't have any caster levels would be able to initiate a dialog with a specific vendor to purchase consumables at a significant discount. A good vendor example is the Enlightened Master in Sestra that only a Samurai can speak with. Rename and hardcode these items to exclude casters to prevent the introduction of these less costly consumables into the general population (which could undermine Sundren's local economy). My technically abilities are none existent so I do not know if this is even possible. My intent was to start a conversation about lowering the cost of doing business for melee characters.

    Full disclosure: I am motivated in doing so because I am thinking about going back to playing melee characters in the future.

    Cheers!
    Cheers!

  • #2
    I have a suggestion. Middling level faction gear with X uses/day of Self Only healing spells equipable only by rogues, fighters, swashbucklers, barbarians, etc.
    James Arrow: Potion Vendor

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    • #3
      In my opinion, if the fighters in the group have to buff and heal themselves most of the time, then the mages and clerics aren't doing their jobs.
      Characters:
      Lyam Kethik

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Lothoir View Post
        I have a suggestion. Middling level faction gear with X uses/day of Self Only healing spells equipable only by rogues, fighters, swashbucklers, barbarians, etc.
        This is an excellent idea.
        Cheers!

        Comment


        • #5
          Sundren History:

          This came up for debate about a year ago when we were looking at all the items and their relative powers along with the gold distribution by class.

          It was suggested to tax spellcasters for their spells, taking some gold to be equivalent of casting components from PNP. In the end, it was mostly shot down, only being applied to a select number of spells.

          Bandages were the other thing implemented, as they were cheap healing solutions. These were limited solutions because a) casters could use them too, and b) people didn't have the patience to let them take full effect.

          My personal opinion at the time was, tax more of the spells and, at the same time, boost the gold output of monsters. Much like the Stimulus Plan, the limited implementation of the spell component tax didn't seem to make it too effective.

          I don't generally like the idea of "special faction stores," because they usually don't make sense in an environmental setting. Bad business practice to limit your sales. Besides, what's to stop Bob the Barbarian from buying cheap bandages for his pal, Sally the Sorceress?

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          • #6
            If you want to know the best (in a kick you in the dick kind of way) part about the consumables bit? With one or two feats worth of investments - it's the very same casters who make potions, scrolls, and wands that mundane classes need. I could level a cleric up to level eight and have pretty much a potion-master for whomever is really interested in paying the (probably skewed) prices that the crafting system takes. Eirimil already offers scrolls and wands for any wizards or people with enough Use Magic Device to value from them. Poor fighters, screwed by the UMD requirements of the current system.

            I might actually do this, just to see if it's cost-effective to player-make potions for 'select people'. I doubt it will be worth it, though, since making any profit off of the potions will require the other person to almost certainly pay more than they would at an NPC (like for +1 or +2 enchanted gear). I also don't think you can actually brew Heal potions, which would be the real seller. Combined with the fact that everything crafted is set to a pre-determined caster level instead of the actual crafter's level... you get a pretty shitty system.
            Active
            Reinamar Stormseeker - The bladestorm that must turn back the wind. Arkerym of The People, practitioner of the forgotten art, pariah.

            Tyler Penleigh - Obligatory author insert, Red Blade Defender, sarcastic jerk, caring brother, loving fiancé, war criminal.

            Retired/Dead
            Eirimil Gaelazair (Dead)- Bitter. Caustic. Abrasive. Egocentric. Probably right. Found dead in the burned-out Viridale forest a few weeks after the survivors were able to sweep the area after the Bloodmaim offensive. Aside from his usual attire, an intricate music box was the only thing in his possession.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Satoshi View Post
              I might actually do this, just to see if it's cost-effective to player-make potions for 'select people'. I doubt it will be worth it, though, since making any profit off of the potions will require the other person to almost certainly pay more than they would at an NPC (like for +1 or +2 enchanted gear)
              It's not, except for a very limited selection of expensive potions. James has been doing this since his creation and I only break even on the cheap potions. The 300+ gp potions net him a profit, but not much. A single large order gets him maybe 1 giant's run worth of gold.
              James Arrow: Potion Vendor

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chiangtao View Post
                Besides, what's to stop Bob the Barbarian from buying cheap bandages for his pal, Sally the Sorceress?
                Stick a requirement of certain class types only. Super easy to do.
                "Life is a game. The only thing that matters is whether you're a pawn or a player."

                ~Zvarich

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                • #9
                  This thread belongs on an action server forum.
                  Characters:
                  Lyam Kethik

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lothoir View Post
                    It's not, except for a very limited selection of expensive potions. James has been doing this since his creation and I only break even on the cheap potions. The 300+ gp potions net him a profit, but not much. A single large order gets him maybe 1 giant's run worth of gold.
                    How much appraise does James have? I know that the difference between 0 Appraise and 44+ (with Lasvi's assistance, I typically roll in the 60's range appraise checks) is massive. I drop the price of a Dimension Door wand from around 8,000gp to 5,500gp on average. Even a handful of points make a pretty big difference. If I made a Brewmaster, it would definitely be with minimizing personal cost in mind.

                    Edit: In my opinion, Wands are where the real potential is. The fact that they are limited to class or UMD is the only problem. Making it so mundanes can use wands (a player -can- do this with judicious use of Able Learner and/or a level of Rogue) would be almost as good as making spell completion and feat substitution items that are actually comparable to 15-20th level standard gear in Pen and Paper. It's been stated a million times already that updating the available magic items would factor heavily in bringing non-casters up to par or above casters as well as shift divine casters away from 'self-buff' towards support/healing and arcane casters towards direct damage.
                    Last edited by Satoshi; 10-26-2011, 05:27 PM. Reason: Added Opinion
                    Active
                    Reinamar Stormseeker - The bladestorm that must turn back the wind. Arkerym of The People, practitioner of the forgotten art, pariah.

                    Tyler Penleigh - Obligatory author insert, Red Blade Defender, sarcastic jerk, caring brother, loving fiancé, war criminal.

                    Retired/Dead
                    Eirimil Gaelazair (Dead)- Bitter. Caustic. Abrasive. Egocentric. Probably right. Found dead in the burned-out Viridale forest a few weeks after the survivors were able to sweep the area after the Bloodmaim offensive. Aside from his usual attire, an intricate music box was the only thing in his possession.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      While thinking about this topic, I came up with an idea while I was in the shower. Give me some feedback, good or bad. Here's my prototype.

                      Keep the stratified levels of effectiveness like with the already present bandages. (Linen/Silk, ect.) That works perfectly. Make a somewhat stronger, more melee-oriented bandage type of kit that's class restricted, like I mentioned.

                      Example:

                      Tactical Triage Kit (Strongest level melee bandage)

                      This kit contains an assortment of medical triage equipment. The kit is intended for use involving near-death injuries, such as arterial lesions, internal hemorrhaging, and major amputations. The contents of the kit include a few days worth of gauze, tourniquets, burn dressings, compact splints, and small sharpened tools designed for multiple uses in assisting the patient.

                      Effect: Cure serious wounds X times per day, up to X uses.

                      (I understand this might not be actually do-able server-wise, but I took into consideration that a smart individual with some semblance of medical knowledge would be able to milk such a product for quite some time. Lessening the effect and making the result modified by a heal check could be a possible idea too.)

                      Usable by: Barbarian, Fighter, Rouge, Swashbuckler, Ect.
                      "Life is a game. The only thing that matters is whether you're a pawn or a player."

                      ~Zvarich

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just reduce the price of consumable healing across the board. Mundanes need it cheaper, healing classes don't use it, wizards that need it are dead before they can use it.
                        Originally posted by Cornuto
                        Glad everyone's being extra fucking ridiculous today.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by roguethree View Post
                          Just reduce the price of consumable healing across the board. Mundanes need it cheaper, healing classes don't use it, wizards that need it are dead before they can use it.
                          I am suddenly reminded of why I like Warforged Wizards so much.
                          Active
                          Reinamar Stormseeker - The bladestorm that must turn back the wind. Arkerym of The People, practitioner of the forgotten art, pariah.

                          Tyler Penleigh - Obligatory author insert, Red Blade Defender, sarcastic jerk, caring brother, loving fiancé, war criminal.

                          Retired/Dead
                          Eirimil Gaelazair (Dead)- Bitter. Caustic. Abrasive. Egocentric. Probably right. Found dead in the burned-out Viridale forest a few weeks after the survivors were able to sweep the area after the Bloodmaim offensive. Aside from his usual attire, an intricate music box was the only thing in his possession.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chiangtao View Post
                            Besides, what's to stop Bob the Barbarian from buying cheap bandages for his pal, Sally the Sorceress?

                            Originally posted by ManUtd4Ever
                            Rename and hardcode these items to exclude casters to prevent the introduction of these less costly consumables into the general population (which could undermine Sundren's local economy).
                            Originally posted by roguethree View Post
                            Just reduce the price of consumable healing across the board.
                            Simple and effective. This is an excellent idea. It doesn't require any "hardcoding," and enables melee characters access to critical items they need.



                            Cheers!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Satoshi View Post
                              How much appraise does James have?
                              Unfortunately I made James long, long before the current Appraise-based potion/wandmaking system was implemented, so he has 0 ranks. With buffs and gear and such he can bring himself to 35 Appraise. A bard can shoot that up to 41.
                              James Arrow: Potion Vendor

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