Halt, who goes there?

[MotherHydra]

So me and OnyxTigress were having a disagreement on whether a change of clothes an a mask makes you harder to recognize as debated/voted on in this post: http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14718

My opinion is that actions, posture, figure, voice and other things make someone terribly easy to recognize. I know I've recognized people I haven't seen for years from behind, for instance; that's my argument and I have had this on previous servers in both NWN1 and 2.

I'd like a DM to finally come and tell us all... How much disguise is disguise enough to not be spotted instantly?
A 7'6'' half-orc with a greathammer doesn't turn into the little red riding hood the instant he dons a red cloak, but a regular human might go from wearing golden armor to black satin with an extra black hood and become virtually invisible in a crowd of people.

What's your opinion? What's the DM verdict?

[OnyxTigress]

I'll add too what the situation was that caused us to ask this. The first time Hydra's character saw my own was when my character was wearing armor and the mask. The second time Hydra saw my character, she was in clothing and the mask.

Both times my character didn't speak, and also just generally stood off to the side watching things.

Quick edit: I could understand my character being questioned if she was out and about in the same armor and such, but I don't feel that she should be recognized when wearing different clothing, wearing a bland black hood and mask, and hasn't said anything.

[MotherHydra]

The first time Onyx's character was being chased by the guards after casting darkness. Something I did -NOT- identify with spellcraft due to range, so my character just took the notes "Suspicious, elf-like chick with something to hide who was observing me."

[Lothoir]

o DISGUISE VS CONCEALMENT: Disguise is trying to pass of as someone else. (i.e. I'm Bob the Red Wizard and I really am bald) Concealment is hiding your voice/voice just so they can't tell who you are. (I'm masked and my voice is grated. I don't care if it's obvious I'm hiding my true identity as long as you don't recognize me!) You don't need disguise rolls for the latter.

Seems pretty clear to me.

[MotherHydra]

So you're saying we ditch logic in favor of simple game mechanics in order to avoid confusion?

[Lothoir]

Yes.

If you want to freeform roleplay join a Yahoo chat channel. If you want to get a rule changed to make sense while still maintaining the flow of gameplay then make concrete suggestions and see if everyone else agrees with you. Until then, play by the same rules as everyone else.

[Doubtful]

I was going to post something long and detailed, but... DM opinion = What Lothoir said.

[Gamling]

I don't see how it's illogical. Someone changing their attire and covering their head, and bat-manning their voice... sure sounds silly, but you're not going to tell who it is in my opinion.

But I don't have to worry since my character has X-ray vision.

[roguethree]

Standing in around in full view in head-to-toe "obviously hiding who I am gear" really defeats the purpose.

"I don't want anyone to know who I am, but I'm not going to take very many steps to avoid being scrutinized by those people."

I mean, we're under martial law. Expect to be submitted and unmasked.

[Doubtful]

Standing in around in full view in head-to-toe "obviously hiding who I am gear" really defeats the purpose.

"I don't want anyone to know who I am, but I'm not going to take very many steps to avoid being scrutinized by those people."

I mean, we're under martial law. Expect to be submitted and unmasked.

That is perfectly true...

"Excuse me sir/ma'am, I couldn't but help noticing you're hanging around looking all suspicious in your natty black duds and face hiding mask.

"I'm sorry legitimate officer of the law, but I'm afraid that the law on masks and face covering only applies to what might be considered populated areas, such as towns and cities. I'm afraid that here your law means little or nothing to me and you can't touch me."

"Ah, you seem to be laboring under the misguided belief that you can use that as some kind of defense and that you have some bizarre right to privacy. I suspected that you might be a suspicious person, your refusal to reveal your face when requested to do so by my legitimate Legion self confirms my fears."

"Oh. Bother."

"Bother indeed mister/missus neer-do-well. Allow me to demonstrate the lack of subtlety often seen by military forces enacting martial law."

"Argh! You stabbed me! Twice! In the spleen! I am undone!"

"And now to unmask the dead fiend. Oh. It was just a spotty teenager in the grip of rebellious youth. I'd best put down masked zealot of the Veritas in my report."

Or... Something.

Unrecognizable as an individual, but recognizable as someone attempting to conceal their identity.

[OnyxTigress]

That is true! Which is why when my masked characters see anyone who looks to be a law official, they turn and walk the other way.

[BattlePixie]

In my opinion:

-If you want to disguise your features so that you are not recognised, wear a mask, change your clothes and make yourself look different. Even wearing a hood without making eye contact should work. Will you look suspicious? depending on environment, maybe. If you're in the cold climb with a mask... well its cold. If your in the Exigo trade post, well that's suspicious. But yes we are under martial law so you may get stopped and questioned regardless.

-If you want to recognise someone through the above measures, then you will need more than a general description, you will need personal familiarity with them. You will need to have spent time in conversation, observation and study to recognise tone and pitch of voice, mannerisms, how they walk etc.

-In short if you want to prevent people who you don't have much contact with identifying you, then change your clothes and wear a hood / mask. If you want to deceive those who know you well, then you better have a pretty good disguise skill.

In my experience:

-Conducting surveillence is tricky and it is easy to lose someone. If you have detailed knowledge of someone through extensive observation and study then it is easier and you can keep on them even through (multiple) wardrobe changes, in and out of buildings and vehicle changes; but you need to be experienced in what to look for. However, if you're tracking someone with a general description (5'6" male, black beard with grey, right handed, headed east on a red honda motorcycle) it is difficult to stay on them especially if they head into crowds, change clothes and vehicles. Sometimes, if you're lucky, you can stay on them through all this, other times you lose them and have to start over.

However it plays out though, remember it is a two way street. This will also apply to "the good guys" who like to use hoods as well. And the disguise self spell shouldn't be a carte blanche "i'm magically disguised" you don't know me; be prepared to make some rolls. Also, unless i miss my guess, there is only one faction on this server that has been conducting the detailed surveilance mentioned above.

[BattlePixie]

bleh i now realise i posted in a dead/resurected thread:

DM edit: Fixed.

[Handsomeman]

I recognize ppl by their name tags when i click on their characters. I usually don't recognize ppl by what they were wearing or how they look. If they are wearing a mask and suggest to me they are in disguise, i will usually rp as such. And if i want see through their disguise, i will ask for some kind of skill roll vs my roll. I wont assume i would just recognize them. Unless they do something to blow their own cover, like pulling out their own unique sword or calling someone by a pet name they only use.

[MotherHydra]

Seems like GBX has made a final ruling in the other thread.