The Duelist PRC

[GDwarf]

Hello all,

I'm strongly considering multiclassing my current PC (A rogue) and giving him some Duelist levels (Once he reaches an appropriate level.)

However, I have some questions about the class and the parry skill before I do so.

First off, armour. Reading the manual, the duelist's only AC bonus is from his int modifier (or duelist level, whichever is lower.) This means that my character gets, at most, a +2 bonus from being a Duelist, but only if he isn't wearing any other armour.

This, alone, seems to make the class almost useless, since my AC is going to be pitiful without the right feats (Imp. Combat Expertise, for example) or stat-boosting items that cost several times as much as armour.

So, is the manual wrong? (Do you add your Int or level, whichever is higher, for example?) or is this not so large a problem?

Second, the parry skill. In NWN1 parry was less then worthless, people who spent points on it always ended up complaining about how useless it was. Is this still the case in 2, and, if so, is wasting 5 skill points (Out of 10/level) a bad price to pay to become a duelist?

[Kajiki]

hi.

I can't help you with the mechanics behind the game as I just started.

I can say however that I intend to make my rogue/fighter a duelist if I am allowed when he gets higher lvl.

This however is purely because of RP and I nay really care if it is really powerful or not hehe.

I guess my point is, if you thought of a good char plot of being a duelist be one :-) and nay worry too much about game mechanics behind the scene :-)

[CrimsonTears]

The manual isn't wrong. Or well, it is. The Int bonus is bugged and doesn't works, so you won't be getting even that bonus to AC. Parry is still the same thing.

Dueslist is a pretty terrible class in NWN2. First, like the name says, it's supposed to be used for duels. That's where it shines, when it's 1-on-1 fights, but when do you get into fights like that? Second, the class would rely heavily in feats, but the game's selection of feats is below pathetic

So, go ahead and take it if you must. I still would advise to just RP you character like that, but staying away from the class.

[Kajiki]

hmm I see if the class nay works at all it do present a problem *pouts*

ohh well maybe I will make some other char then.

[GDwarf]

That's rather what I thought. I guess I just keep my character as a rogue, then.

Reading up more on parry, as in NWN1 it is badly bugged, so I'll be avoiding it.

Edit: Though, apparently the int bonus isn't broken, it just doesn't display properly.

[--chupacabra--]

The Intelligence bonus to AC does work, but it does not show up in the character screen. The end result of the bonus is that you end up with roughly the same AC as wearing light armor, but whilst wearing regular clothes. Kinda cool. The bonus is maxed at your current duelist level, apparently in order to stop wizards and other smarty-pantses from exploiting the bonus with one level of duelist. (Maybe they should have considered doing the same thing with the monk wisdom AC bonus *shrug*)

The parry skill seems a bit better than it was in NWN1. It does work, but seems a little boring at first because you just seem to stand there. Often your party thinks you aren't doing anything and start yelling 'attack!,' hehe.

The main bug with parry is that if you don't spend the round before you activate it with an all out attack, then when you do activate the mode the game mistakenly gives you a -1 cumulative penalty to parry per round (as if it were a neverending round). Sort of annoying, but on the bright side, it makes it more challenging. You have to parry with a roll 10 higher than the DC for a riposte. The Improved parry feat lowers this to 5. Duelists get the Elaborate Parry feat at level 7, which adds their Duelist level to their parry roll.

Parry is usefull in certain situations. If you are taking a real beating or are surrounded, it helps your defence significantly, particularly if you dual-wield (more parrys). It also makes for a good way for your partymates to flank whatever is attacking you.

As a rule, it seems like most prestige classes are somewhat underpowered compared to base classes. I suppose this is because of the...um...prestige of having the class. I'd say, go for it. Would be a bit of fun.

[solexwolf]

I played a dueling for nwn2 campaign, the Int bonus doesnt show up but its there. Fighter would be better than rogue (I mixed it .. 3 rogue, for 2x sneaks and the evasion) then fighter for the rest for the feats.

Duelists are like slow to start but are beautiful at later levels, all that parry and extra parry feats pays off when your surrounded and dodging the entire mob.

I suggest only three levels of rogue. Any more and your stealing from you BAB+ that you'd get with fighter.

Dont make a hin barbarian. Thats just silly.

[undeadsteak]

lots of ppeople say duelists are bugged.. dono. Parry really sucks in nwn2, thats all i can say. theres no counter attacks or anything.

[CrimsonTears]

Ah I stand corrected about the AC then. I had been told it not only didn't show up but also didn't take effect at all.

Parry is "nice", but it can be -very- boring if you like being a bit more active. You will spend most of your time just deflecting attacks and very occasionally doing a riposte for a not-too-outstanding damage. While in a group it -could- be more useful for attracting attention if the AI didn't make everything turn away from you and go at the first attacker. So you might be able to keep 5 creatures around you distracted and not attacking you, but as soon as someone else attacks them, they rush the other person and you stay there distracting the air :/

I really wish the class was more useful (I planned on making a duelist myself), but after trying it for a bit it gets pretty frustrating because of the so-so abilities + lack of duelist-friendly feats + AI.

[solexwolf]

Really? Is the AC bugged aswell?

On the NWN2 mainstory, you could get a +3ac armor for duelists. Built in Haste.
With a +4 Skill feat in Parry it makes up for the AC.

Sundren isnt a real high power magical item thingies server. A duelist will be hard but I will respect you for taking the challenge.

[Ralek]

Last time I tried parrying, I could see from the rolls that it was certainly possible to parry a critical hit from another character. That's something to think about, the only defense against a nutty weapon master with a crit range of 15-20.

[Arckeya]

... I'm going to be a nutty weapon master with a crit range of 15-20.

What's with all this hate?

[Peridan]

Right there with ya bro. =) Don't worry, WM will still rock the house

[undeadsteak]

heh, let them be what they want. Can't wait till epic levels come out, i wana get 20 levels of bard. Weapon masters gonna get pwned by a bigbys anyways.0

[Anauroch]

Last time I tried parrying, I could see from the rolls that it was certainly possible to parry a critical hit from another character.

That's one major benefit...

With the right feats, the duelist ability at level 7 or 8 (don't know at what level you get elaborate parry in the game) and an item to boost your parry skill, the duelist can have a solid defense.

Take a look at the NWN2 wiki for a complete summary on bugs of the parry skill. It's really quite bothersome...

Plus... if your opponent does not attack you, you cannot attack either. Aaaaaand.... then there's knockdown.