Evil--What's your take?

[greypawn]

The best way to play your characters, be they good bad or neutral, is however you want to play them. I tend to lean towards clear evil or good types because this is a fantasy setting and I prefer to distance myself from my character. When I play 'shades of grey' types then I tend to relate to the character too well and then things get too personal for me. I role play for fun and to escape reality for a few hours each week. Not to make a new one.

Players with evil characters: Why do you play evil PCs?

I've always been a person who cheers for the villain in movies. Even as a kid, I liked the Witch of East and her wild flying monkeys and Ursula from the little mermaid. Later I started to really appreciate well done evil side kick types like Grima Wormtongue and Peter Pettigrew (the two characters I originally drew influences from for Varsick). A good villain can really add to the world's atmosphere and I like to think I do that.

What kinds of subtle evil things do you do?

I don't. My character is a complete religious fanatical with 'Bane' tattooed on his forehead. The most subtle evil things he does is sneak around. He is a pretty evil bastard and I play him as such.

What do you do to keep RP fair and fun for all?

Make having fun have priority over winning verbal arguments and pvp fights. Be willing to submit. When players see you are willing to submit then they too may do so. Making the role play more of a 'tug a war' than 'character vs character.' Most people have the view of heroes (good) verse heels (bad) when it comes to story lines. So they go in with the mindset that good will triumph over evil. Therefore, as a heel, you should be willing to fail to develop story lines.

Step lightly around new or unknown players (but still play your character as you see fit). There are certain acts of evil that make people uncomfortable. This is a community of role players from all over the world from different cultures and with different views. Some people are more comfortable with things like gore, crude language, and sex than others. The server has policies in place to protect against certain crude acts such as rape, reference. If you have a character that dips into the grey areas of whats appropriate way too often then ask other players via tell to let you know when you've crossed that line with them so you know where to stop. Understanding others comfort levels and working with them instead of against them is important to build healthy relationships between nemesis.

For those evil-types who are organized enough to have long-term goals, how do you keep the interest alive, both for yourself and the others involved with the plot?

Be creative.

[greypawn]

The simple fact is, lore wise, unless it's changed here, Banites are not going out and kidnapping people and doing outright evil things. They're the iron fist in a velvet glove type of evil, seeking political power. Sadly, I do not think that sort of RP is even possible here so Banites are forced into being like Bhaalites.

Worshiping Bhaal is something you can do and I believe that they are accepted into the Black Hand. Black Hand does not equal Banite. And I actually want to say, at the moment, the Banites make for the minority in the Black Hand (player base wise).

[07paul87]

Awesome post, Grey, thanks!

For myself, my biggest problem is losing interest in the character. It doesn't matter what character it is, how much I enjoy his backstory/build/current situation; I always get bored. This time around I'm going to try really *really* hard to stay with one character. One big contributing factor is that I often go in with lofty goals, then become frustrated as I hit delays.

I also frequently get the "grass is greener" syndrome at around level 6. It's right around there that I start to think that I'd have a lot more fun as a [insert alternative race/class combo here], or I'll start over with a character, realizing that if only I had reduced my Str, bought some Knowledge ranks, or any number of small tweaks, my character would be 1000% better. Of course, this is rarely the case.

My goal this time is to stick with this character so hard I'll develop personality issues in RL because of it!

...well, maybe not that much, but you get the idea.

[Kitsunestume]

I'm in agreement with Peridan, the shades of grey certainly exist. I have two subtle-evil chars, both of who are much happier pitting other factions against each other to weaken everyone involved, while playing both sides for extra coin. It takes much longer than murder and mayhem, but watching two weeks of cloak-and-dagger all fall into place is much more satisfying.

[Dave Fritz]

Hi, Folks,
There is another "subtlety" to the good/evil thing, but it comes from the other axis. A Chaotic Good character may say and do things, even long -term things, that a Paladin would view as evil or consorting with evil. Actually, it's the character making up their own mind about what rules should be, or balancing in a complex situation.

By the same token, a Lawful Evil character probably often manipulates the rules to their own advantage, while adhering strictly to the letter. *bad lawyer joke omitted*

I also feel that sticking with a character will inevitably lead to periods of frustration with how things are going. That's certainly been my experience with Tery, and he's only L15 after playing him exclusively for just over a year. There have also been times of great gratification and feelings of accomplishment, and times of just good RP with no other reward. For what it's worth, with my only other character (on another server) I'm going through a period of frustration right now and have to keep myself focused on long-term things. And yes, some of that can slop over into both OOC and Real Life.

[roguethree]

A Chaotic Good character may say and do things, even long -term things, that a Paladin would view as evil or consorting with evil.

For example?

[07paul87]

Hi, Folks,
There is another "subtlety" to the good/evil thing, but it comes from the other axis. A Chaotic Good character may say and do things, even long -term things, that a Paladin would view as evil or consorting with evil. Actually, it's the character making up their own mind about what rules should be, or balancing in a complex situation.

By the same token, a Lawful Evil character probably often manipulates the rules to their own advantage, while adhering strictly to the letter. *bad lawyer joke omitted*

I also feel that sticking with a character will inevitably lead to periods of frustration with how things are going. That's certainly been my experience with Tery, and he's only L15 after playing him exclusively for just over a year. There have also been times of great gratification and feelings of accomplishment, and times of just good RP with no other reward. For what it's worth, with my only other character (on another server) I'm going through a period of frustration right now and have to keep myself focused on long-term things. And yes, some of that can slop over into both OOC and Real Life.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I remember rolling through to the goblin hills with my brand-new lvl 3 character and seeing the long time players lounging around and RPing. I would then feel like a crack baby for not being able to focus on one character for long.

And yes, RP is a sweet reward by itself. I've had a lot of good moments with Sago in particular. Ah, the feel of just barely escaping from what seemed to be every other character logged on the server; the sweet roundabout method he gained Cartel membership; and the bullshit of being deprived his reward after correctly guessing which party-goer he was supposed to kill. Great times!

Conflicts from the other axis is fun, but I see it as more specific means of how characters reconcile and interact with their "true selves" (good/evil). I've certainly had my share of law/chaos conflicts, but I'm trying to improve my l33t villainy skillz.

[Kaybrie]

A Chaotic Good character may say and do things, even long -term things, that a Paladin would view as unjust.

Fix'd.

[Cornuto]

But there's an evil domain, smite good/evil, evil spell descriptors, Blackguards and Antipaladins . . . while Joe Swordguy might not know where he stands, anyone with any sort of divine connection knows that what he or she's up to is morally reprehensible; they just don't care / can't help themselves / owe a debt / and so on. The universe has verified gods and heaven and hell; good and evil clearly have meaning to both parties.

D&D is dumb.

[Peridan]

D&D is dumb.

We should play WoW instead!

[Thief Of Navarre]

I have a number of good pcs (one of them a paladin) and although only counting in the half dozen or so, my encounters with evil pcs have been well RPed and not grievance ridden in any way.

I've always been greeted with some form of RP and the expected "You're not welcome"-type dialogue, but I've also had plenty of chance to return banter of my own and then flee if I so chose. Those involved in encounters that had characters well above my character's level were very sporting and even after some initial fisty cuffs for appearance's sake, once clear I intended retreat, followed merely as an escort to ensure he left their lands.

That said, there's been many more times that I've encountered the less obvious forms of evil (from OOC assumptions and knowledge) and they've been well-played, and refreshing to see folks on the server keen to bring a myriad of shades of black (and grey).

I guess that just like there's the infamously unimaginative Lawful Stupid character in terms of LG there's the polar opposite for Evil, both of which would likely have very short life-expectancies. Thankfully I haven't encountered any black-cloaked, top hat wearing fiends twirling their moustaches as they tie damsels to railway tracks. Yet. LOL

Keep up the good work Team Evil.

(That's if I'm allowed to call it "good" work)

Must say that has been my experience! Some very good RP on sundren. I have tried to play evil characters and I have loads of brilliant ideas for it ~ I just cant seem to get the ratio down to a point where your character is antagonistic while being pacifistic (unless riled of course). I have a problem players evil characters full stop, so if anyone has any tips beyond the obvious.
I'd like to play something along the lines of the heathcliff/dracula line of clever & calculated evil but instead of being aware of your conduct most people have you pegged as a paladin because you dont rape and pilage in broad daylight -.- Its a hard act for sure, to be recognised for your roleplay and remaining a viable social character

[Gamling]

A lot of shit can be up to interpretation, like what exactly is chaotic or what exactly is good, or evil. One DM might think that intimidating a dude with death threats is evil, while another might think it's chaotic.

[Philosopher]

D&D is dumb.

It's not D&D so much as the Forgotten Realms setting that is dumb. In the FR setting the Gods aren't ethereal and distant. They're in your face, with clearly established lines of conduct that have a direct impact on the world. The FR gods are really only one step away from the Greek Pantheon, in which those Gods would quite literally walk amongst mortals consorting and causing mischief. The FR Gods are almost this pervasive in the setting.

The real nail in the coffin for the Gods of FR is that they are so very real. They literally walked the land at one point in time (I think a mere 35 years ago by the Sundren timeline?) You can't refute they exist. You can't really even be atheist in this setting. So because the Gods are so very real, established lines of good and evil are also very polar. It's an unfortunate side effect of having Gods be so real. How can you debate what good and evil are, when you have proof of a good God and evil God?

For this alone, I despise the FR setting. Nothing else in the setting, not even the Deus Ex Machina of it's famous NPC's, bothers me so much as this. Personally, I'd rather Gods (and concepts of good and evil) be distant, blurry, and up for interpretation. It's more realistic, and it's way more fun to RP.

[Dave Fritz]

For example?

I've had a Paladin tell me that having any kind of dealings with Shady in Sestra instead of reporting him to the CdG is evil. Granted, some Paladins can be over-the-top on the question of what's evil. Still, that's their view. Whereas a Chaotic character wouldn't really have a problem dealing with him.

Just or unjust is a different matter, although it can be related.

[Kaybrie]

Because even if you have a good god, and an evil god, individuals views on what is right and wrong still differ. Evil is just a tag attached to one group of people prejudice, used to try to scare people away from another groups.

In english; When it comes to conflicts of good and evil, it's better to take a standpoint on right and wrong then alignments. Because evil people are obviously doing something right, or they wouldn't exist.