Some clarity on Skill Rolls vs. Opposing Skill roles

[roguethree]

Yes, paladins are immune to intimidate. A paladin might take someone more seriously if that person rolls an exceptional intimidate check, but the paladin is not going to back down because of any intimidate roll.

[Gorri]

Yes, paladins are immune to intimidate. A paladin might take someone more seriously if that person rolls an exceptional intimidate check, but the paladin is not going to back down because of any intimidate roll.

I'm sorry, not sure I buy intimidate = fear in the manner you present it here.

*Fear* is a spell effect that causes a character to completely lose control in an irrational way. That is what I believe paladins to be immune to. The innate instinct that causes one to be fearful of potentially dangerous situations is not the same thing (it's also called intelligence/wisdom/instinct). Does every paladin ALWAYs have to solo charge the horde of 100 angry ancient red dragons just because they somehow do not have this instinct? That would be a hilarious curse!

Intimidate is a behavior that can potentially cause another player to alter their behavior. Intimidate is also related to demoralize... are paladins immune to demoralize?

If the Server admins deem all paladins immune to intimidate and demoralize then it needs to be built into that point and click roll. Until then, if I succeed on a point and click skill check of intimidate on a paladin... sorry, I am going with it.

[GodBeastX]

Taken from here and PHB: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm

A character immune to fear can’t be intimidated, nor can nonintelligent creatures.

Paladins are not just immune to magic fear, they are immune to any fear at all. Paladins cannot be caused to impair their own judgement from any fear inspiring circumstances period. You can threaten to kill them, threaten to kill their family, friends, kingdom and more. A paladin will never be forced to cower or back down from that. However, they CAN choose to believe it will happen and decide to act accordingly.

As for intimidate the opposing check is: (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear)

I believe the roll automatically takes that into account. So higher level chars are harder to intimidate. Wise chars are harder to intimidate. And people with saves vs fear are harder to intimidate. There are no opposing skill rolls.

As for bluff. I agree with Uri and roguethree. Just lie as long as you want. I think it should be up to opposing player to decide to roll sense motive against you. DMs may require a bluff roll in events on their choosing, but I don't see why you should have to bluff something anyone is going to believe anyway, especially from PHB description of it.

Example: My char's real name is Ted, but when people greet they go "Yo, what's your name?" and I go "Bob" should I have to bluff? That guy has no reason to doubt me. Now if someone told him my name was Ted, and I tell him it's Bob, he has a reason to doubt me. So he rolls the sense motive. If he fails, cool, I'm Bob and the person who told him ted was lying. If he succeeds, I'm lying.

Sometimes you'll find people roll bluff for humor reasons and not cause they want to get into conflict. For example:

Machiavelli came up to my tiefling and went "I like you!" and rolled bluff. I replied "I like you too!" and rolled bluff. We both succeeded and hilarity ensued

[DM_Acorn]

Kenders in Dragonlance were immune to fear. They just didn't have the capacity for it.

I don't think paladins are intended this attribute.

Both sides of this might have validity. Though, I would expect paladins to heed intimidate roles in my events so take that for what it is worth. They cannot however be moved into the Frightened status for any reason other than divine intervention. This is what they are immune to NOT common sense.

Consider these three things and all these arguments are moot.

1. You and only YOU are responsible for the actions of your character. Regardless of roll. No one but you controls your character. (except under dominate...)

2. You will find folks like to play with you more, if you play, taking their efforts into account.

3. Loosing a roll IS NOT BAD RP.

FYI - I award well played losses to a greater degree than wins

[GodBeastX]

Though, I would expect paladins to heed intimidate roles in my events so take that for what it is worth.

Think you should clarify this Acorn so not to show confusion. By heed do you mean "Simply take note of that this guy is TRYING to scare you" or become intimidated?

Honestly, nothing can halt a paladin's bravery. It's just a feature of the class after a certain point.

[roguethree]

A character immune to fear can’t be intimidated, nor can nonintelligent creatures

I don't think paladins are intended this attribute.

Clearly, they are. There's a distinction between "can't be intimidated" and "completely ignorant of danger," and I think that's the distinction you're making. Whereas a fighter/rogue/bard/whatever might be approached by a tough-looking giant, get intimidated, and out of fear avoid the conflict, the paladin would assess the danger said giant presented and might choose to avoid the conflict. Immune to Fear doesn't mean No Self-preservation Instinct.

[OnyxTigress]

If the Server admins deem all paladins immune to intimidate and demoralize then it needs to be built into that point and click roll.

It is. If you roll an intimidate check on a paladin, and your skill roll is higher than the paladin's, it will still say you failed.

[Shedboy]

yeah i reckon paladins feel the fear (Danger) but have mastered it because of their strong core of convictions. However, I play my paladin having real fear of danger to others and other indirect bad stuff happening. Maybe he should have more faith in Torm, but hey shit happens, its a reality.

Fear is one of those emotions that keep you alive and help you recognize a threat, without it, you get run over by a granny on a scooter. Of course many adolescent boys are known for their fearlessness due to the thought they think themselves indestructible - until they come acropper in a major way. Lets also not forget the modifier of safety in numbers, being in a tank or having your opponent nailed to a cross.

Likewise a samurai's uber stare down ... is it ineffective if your not looking at them or blind or have a nasty petrifying gaze?

As to how anyone reacts if they are intimidated is flight, freeze or fight. up to the pc. and while if you react appropriately to other peoples roles, the reverse is true, rp ing the manner you intimidate, use diplomacy with the roll gives kudos. esp if you roll a "1" the old critical failure.

Indeed rp well enough and the roll becomes obsolete / unnecessary.

[roguethree]

yeah i reckon paladins feel the fear (Danger) but have mastered it because of their strong core of convictions.

Paladins don't master fear; they just don't feel it period. It really is that simple. That's what immunity is.

[Kaizen]

yeah i reckon paladins feel the fear (Danger) but have mastered it because of their strong core of convictions.

No fear. None. At all. No fear of failure. No fear of heights. No fear of public speaking. No fear of being disappointed. None of it. Makes for interesting RP.

[Lothoir]

Not to mention Divine Grace. Charisma is self-confidence and force of personality, so by adding it to all of your saves your deity is basically allowing you to dodge fireballs and lightning bolts because you believe you can.

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

Sort of comes down to wisdom in the end for paladins. Because they feel no fear they need to be careful on occasion, realizing in truth somethings are worth having a healthy amount of respect for. The realms' histories are chock full of examples of paladins with more courage then sense, on a related note there's quite a few dragon dens chock full of fine and valuable equipment.

It's that fine line between being utterly fearless (and fair likely to be regarded as mad as a result) or being genuinely courageous.

[Mournas]

Paladins as Rougethree has stated are simply immune to fear. They do not feel it what so ever this is due to the bond that they have with their god and being their hand in justice.

Intimidation is to imply the presence or operation of a fear-inspiring force. Intimidation does not need to be proven it can be fact or fiction. Thus Paladins are immune to intimidation.

And as Twisted said in the previous post Paladins rely on their wisdom to not do something foolish. Though their force of personality and conviction can often times get them into a situation that would not be wise to be in. So where as he may be fearless and he maybe wise enough to ordinarily not do something stupid, you can always try to taunt them into doing something stupid.

[GodBeastX]

Paladins have to attone quite often for evil acts. So, yeah, no surprise.

I don't want to get off topic though. The topic is Social Skill rolls. I think in the end, if you target a person and roll, the counter roll that should be used is automatic.

[Kaybrie]

Actually this isn't true. The PHB specifically states that they're used to "Make the implausible or impossible seem true"

Distinguish between trolling and authentic role play. If someone's being a goofy dick with their bluff rolls, I see no reason to follow along and have my character humiliate themselves by saying "Duuh, okay George I think I'm a woman now, derp herp." Oh wait, I only play chicks, HAH!

Short version; There's a difference between implausible and stupid, learn to distinguish.