A Little Bit of Clarification About Banites

[Kaeldorn]

Your Tormite example explicitly mentions cults of said deities. Membership of such a cult, like the Black Hand, implies that an individual takes a favourable stance towards practices by that cult, such as human sacrifices. Of course they would be valid for extermination.

Someone who makes it known that they worship Bane needn't be a cultist. A paladin of Torm has no real reason to kill them without further information. That isn't to say that they need to go all buddy-buddy or even be tolerant towards those people, but killing them is an extreme measure.

[Kaizen]

Personally, I see it as many people just like to see paladins fall and work the rules to make that happen.

[Jhickey]

I tried to avoid this thread all together mainly because I don't agree with a lot of things in it.


Helmite paladins in D&D history have actually fallen quite often because they will be so driven to destroy evil they'll sometimes kill people who aren't even CLOSE to evil.

"Yeah, uhhh, we just destroyed this whole village because we thought they were harboring evil... sorry about that."

They do get attoned for it, but this does happen in the order. If you're acting like a space marine you're probably being a good helmite paladin. I won't promise you that you won't be in confession and seeking attonement regularly, but this is how that faith works.

This is Wrong because Helm Is a LN God, There is evil within his order. Look at some of the old source (AD&D) material one of Helms Favored was in fact LE but a favored because he folowed the dogma of Protection over all. Helmites fell out of favor because the people of Toril viewed him as hartless for striking down Mystra as she tried to return to the upper planes with no permission from Ao. Helm rewards his faithful for not compromising his/ her duty. What is a Helmite Paladin to do when is superior officer is evil? Nothing, he/her dosnt have to like the person just complete the task to the best of their abilitys without breaking the Paladin code.
So as regards to Helm He is more Law & Order. Would a member be upset if say a child was being hurt for some evil act? Yes probly more upset and likly to fly of the chains since this would violate Helms dogma..
In closing Helm is LN That means a broad spectrem represnts him including LE!!

[The Butcher]

I am glad that I do not play a paladin, or a Black Hand member. This seems like a lot of drama over a lot of nothing.

[Cornuto]

I am glad that I do not play a paladin, or a Black Hand member. This seems like a lot of drama over a lot of nothing.

Pretty much.

[BedlamX]

Does seem that way lately.

[caterpillar]

I am glad that I do not play a paladin, or a Black Hand member. This seems like a lot of drama over a lot of nothing.

For me it's not a drama, just pleasant way to educate myself about D&D. I'm too lazy to read vast codecs about gods and other stuff. Here, and in other similar discussions, I get my lore . It affects opinion and knowledge in the good way, because I'm not right the smartest person to work it out for myself, I need somebody else to do that .

[MelancholyWinds]

Well, if you think about it, unless there's you know, some sort of DM ruling, this entire thing will probably have little to no effect on things. People will roleplay the way they want to roleplay and interpret things the way they want to interpret them.

It's more of an opportunity to state your opinion on your interpretation.

It's also an opportunity for some to rage, and/or rant >.>

[GodBeastX]

This is Wrong because Helm Is a LN God, There is evil within his order. Look at some of the old source (AD&D) material one of Helms Favored was in fact LE but a favored because he folowed the dogma of Protection over all. Helmites fell out of favor because the people of Toril viewed him as hartless for striking down Mystra as she tried to return to the upper planes with no permission from Ao. Helm rewards his faithful for not compromising his/ her duty. What is a Helmite Paladin to do when is superior officer is evil? Nothing, he/her dosnt have to like the person just complete the task to the best of their abilitys without breaking the Paladin code.
So as regards to Helm He is more Law & Order. Would a member be upset if say a child was being hurt for some evil act? Yes probly more upset and likly to fly of the chains since this would violate Helms dogma..
In closing Helm is LN That means a broad spectrem represnts him including LE!!

You didn't say what was wrong with my post, you just said there's L/E people in the chuch and people hate them. However, his paladins DO evil acts while sticking to their duty. As such they fall, but they are still attoned. Need I bust out the pages to quote?

Regardless, if you're a black hand member getting cut down you might just want to ask why anyone knows you're a black hand member to begin with if you're trying to mingle.

And if we're really worried about Paladins Falling, just roll Divine Champion, probably solved.

[BedlamX]

And if we're really worried about Paladins Falling, just roll Divine Champion, probably solved.

Done

Turin falls, he really doesn't lose a whole lot with only having 4 paladin levels.

*Patiently awaits the introduction of the Grey Guard to Sundren*

[Seheren]

So, a Paladin kills a legally registered Banite with no proven ties to the BH. A banite who has not been proven, or even accused, of any crime. What happens to the Paladin? He just prays for forgiveness? He doesn't have a trial, or have to pay for his actions in any other way?

[Kaeldorn]

A distinction had already been made between alignment and law. He would be breaking Sundren law and could be legally prosecuted.

[Kaybrie]

A distinction had already been made between alignment and law. He would be breaking Sundren law and could be legally prosecuted.

The operative word.

[Dragor]

The operative word.

While it hasnt happened to a paladin yet it has happened to a cleric...although I stopped paying attention to it

and even though he didnt actually kill them

[Kaybrie]

It really happens only with paladins/clerics. I can't count the number of times I've just lit Banites on fire right outside the second wind and come to face no punishment from lawful entities.

Though maybe that's the secret, if you want to hunt Banites and don't want authoritarian figures hunting you down, just roll a sorcerer or wizard, and DM's won't pay attention to you while they stalk all the divine casters.