Killing vs. Intimidation vs. Subdual

[caterpillar]

Hello, I would like to ask what do you think about killing as a solution of problems. I have to admit, that I play the evil guys, but even though I think I am an angel in comparison to some "good" guys, who act like murdering machines.

If my toon as a poor thin girl says something, what could make somebody angry, the answer .. no I am not exaggerating .. ends in 80 percent in the try to kill or killing my toon. Seriously most of you guys, good or bad, would look like poor sociopathic murderers in the eyes of ordinary people. I can't even remember, when anybody tried to use the itimidate skill, instead of killing me. Actually I strongly believe I was intimidated only once and it was the goblins in the Sharan hills .

The second thought is using killing vs. subdual in PvP. There are situations, when it is perfectly logic - guy pursues a vampire, is killed in PvP, her friends find her body and resurect her with the help of the priestess. Perfect, flawless.

On the other hand, you meet guy, she kills you because you said some stupidity or for whatever reason, you return from the hell, but because you do not remember what happend, yep amnesia, you can't take a lesson from such a killing and it could end in circles. If the killed guy would be only subdued in such a conflict, she would remember everything and she would know - tadaah you've learned your lesson.

Also being killed in some situations is for the story .. odd. I was killed by a guy, I thought he was friendly to me, but I did not remember it of course. What to do the next day when we'll meet? Either he acts like anything happens and we have good relationships again, because I don't remember it, so I don't care, or he suddenly acts like my enemy, but I'm confused and not aware why. Odd.

Sometimes good aimed slap could be pretty reasonable solution of such a conflict. So what do you think about it? Shouldn't be death the last solution and not the only and first?

[Fezzik]

It's been said by at least one wise man here that death is taken far to liberally in most persistent and like worlds. The person that killed you should have some sense of things; the rules are there to prevent people from going out and killing the person that killed them. If you're in a conversation with a vampire for 40 minutes and then you turn up dead in a temple, you'd think that it was probably the vampire - not the paladin that caught you talking to the vampire and killed you both for some seeming conspiracy .

I would say that people should use a little more RP and logic when they're doing their PvP. A thief isn't likely to kill someone if he can knock them out, and rob them; nor should a Paladin (they should be taken to jail and let the authorities deal with them); most good clerics probably the same - if you kill all your enemies, you're really whittling down your potential conversions (hence why Bane's Clerics terrorize and incite fear, they don't kill the innocent).

Killing should be a last solution, and people should, if they want to be bruisers, put some skill points in the appropriate skills. The world, even if there isn't an NPC or PC visible, isn't completely empty despite the look of the land; someone might see you, so casual murder seems a bit silly. If the numbers are right and I remember properly, there are 1 million people in the Legion?... Sundren is 100 km square; bound to be someone roaming around well traveled roads.

[GodBeastX]

If I recall, resurrection gives you full memory. What we didn't want is someone getting killed, respawning, attacking killer or telling buddies "That guy just killed me!"

Respawn is slightly OOC in that it's a token gesture so that death isn't so permanent to you for such RP. If you want to wait for resurrection so you can retain the lesson, go ahead.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I dont play good guys generally because they are damn hard to play properly. But I can say as a chaotic guy that even my characters dont always take such petty things to heart. Apart from Falmari; but he is a different kettle of fish and entirely mad.

[gbbishop]

nice topic... yes i think it is silly when 80% of conflicts end in a pissing contest... to the DEATH... idk to prove how good you build is.. or some such get off tactic. it is quite laughable and unrealistic. personally, i think that there should be more consequences for murderers.. sundren is a law state after all.

really i just appreciate players who try to push the RP forward... those that read this, make sure you thing of other possibilities for resolving conflict.. ones that wouldnt get your palladin thrown in jail.

[Handsomeman]

In my opinion, i think subdual should be always be on until the moment the player decides to make the killing blow. It has many benefits such as, not accidentally killing your allies(confusion spell, fireball, etc). Also gives bad guys a chance to monolog their evil plans, good guys their righteous victory speech, the loser a chance to beg for thier lives, the dying their last words, and generally everybody more time to decide if they want to make the killing blow. There's a lot more of various things you can do with a defeated character, so why miss out on the rp opportunity?

[BedlamX]

I love using intimidate (or even bluff) to get out of a possible PvP situation. Mainly because I really hate PvP. But also because I make all my toons calm enough to keep a level head or silly enough to not know any better and think they just wanna make friends.

[Root]

I can happily sit back and know that any image I have as a psychotic murderer of anyone who looks or acts evil is completely intentional. ^^

That said, I do have Subdual on as default. If I ever truly intend to kill someone, or they deserve it, it'll be a subdual, then a finishing blow after some decent RP and chance to escape. I don't like throwing folks into the fugue because I spend enough time there myself.

That said, you'd be suprised the number of 'fearless' people we have. I end up doing more killing blows than I expect, usually when someone is sat on 1 HP and has my 24-str H'Orc looming over them, and yet they still think it's a good idea to insult and threaten them. I don't like sending people to the fugue, but I'm not going to bend common sense and logic to avoid doing so.

[Dave Fritz]

If I recall, resurrection gives you full memory. What we didn't want is someone getting killed, respawning, attacking killer or telling buddies "That guy just killed me!"

Respawn is slightly OOC in that it's a token gesture so that death isn't so permanent to you for such RP. If you want to wait for resurrection so you can retain the lesson, go ahead.

This is a bit off-topic, but just to be clear, is resurrection only using the Resurrection spell? What about Raise Dead? Is respawn everything that is done through the Reaper? Sorry for the noob question, but what I can and cannot remember does have some in-game significance in one particular instance.

[Vonjan]

think that if some players where judge by Dm's alot would lose there Good Status. Playing good is easy except it puts the world on your shoulders including other people judgement that you might be Viewed as weak.as for evil that is also easy because you make all the choices good would never even consider. Good will kill to defend himself and willl probably use subdual unlike evil that has multile choices depending of his mental makeup but i also see alot of killers out there roaming about some openly talk about murdering people and that with a Paladin right next to them.is it grounds for a paladin to kill someone who conspires to eliminate another? no by Good standards he should let the law know and act to defend the victim for futur events . I supose a good talk with the conspirator using some good old fashion bluff or intimidate should do plenty.

[Doubtful]

This is a bit off-topic, but just to be clear, is resurrection only using the Resurrection spell? What about Raise Dead? Is respawn everything that is done through the Reaper? Sorry for the noob question, but what I can and cannot remember does have some in-game significance in one particular instance.

The death rules here are as stated in the Wiki -

Death from PVP will result in a memory loss unless the victim is raised or resurrected by another character at the location of their death immediately following the PVP event. Players may not contact other players OOCly for a resurrection, especially to retain memory of the conflict.

[Maevan2]

In my opinion, i think subdual should be always be on until the moment the player decides to make the killing blow. It has many benefits such as, not accidentally killing your allies(confusion spell, fireball, etc).

Why do you think that we have full PvP rules instead of just party PvP?

[Handsomeman]

i stand corrected, maevan2 is right. subdual should only be used for pvp purposes only. i apologize for making that mistake.