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[thaelis]

I'm not sure how new the tomb area in the Valley Road is, as I've been gone a while, but the challenge rating seems a bit out of whack.

Necromancers, zombies and mercs are ok...

But, the ghosts, who seem to be the same challenge rating as everthing else are super tough. They are hard to kill, and seems like they use a touch attack that hits you even through armor etc..

Add to that their fear ability and they are way tougher than a Spittlefist Defender, yet yield less xp.

Just my thoughts anyway...perhaps its just my character build?

[Fezzik]

It depends on what you're attacking them with. I found them easier to kill personally than the skeletons. The flock of skeletons at the end is a little excessive .

[RPMike17]

IMHO - I always thought the xp for creatures was out of whack... at low levels it seems fine, but once you get to 8+ lvl the xp for creature kills is strange.

My assumption as to why this is has always been this: The game cannot take into consideration how "challenging" an encounter really was, the one ghost that took you 75 (successful) attacks and 10 CMW potions to destroy, just gives you a whopping 8 xp and 1 gold due to it's "challenge rating to you." It's not the ghost's fault that your equipment is not designed for fighting ethereal entities, with a DM, they can offset the xp by seeing this and decide if you deserve more xp for the imaginative way you destroyed it.

Safer to take my toon out of here and find some RP at 30 xp per 10 min. But, this has always been the case with Sundren, which is why it is an RP PW and party base "exploring" is encouraged over solo-ing.

[GodBeastX]

First, I'd like to say the exp system was written by me. It isn't done by the engine. We assign creatures a CR (Challenge Rating) which is based on the D&D standard of "It takes a party of this level to kill this." Everything in that dungeon is essentially 3 or 4. The higher above the CR you get the less exp you get, and the farther below, the more exp you get. Same level is considered optimal.

Second, I think you may be considering the area wrong. The reason the dungeon was added is variation. The idea in it's design wasn't "A rogue should find this place easy" or "Ranger bob can handle this because he's level 3" it's more "These are undead, anyone who deals with this creature type easily will find the exp yield easier than say goblins."



We're trying to get future dungeons that have a greater variation of encounters so people can choose the best locations for their gameplay styles. Just to give you an example, a Ghast is CR2 or 3. However, it's extremely difficult for some people because it's hits can paralyze, other people shrug it off like nothing and whoop them fast.

That's the nature of the game. One person might be able to turn an elemental and kill it fast, others dance around on fire asking "WHy do DMs hate me?!?!"

The ghosts are CR3, they have 21 hitpoints, 3 AB, 10AC, Incorporeal (50% dodge rate), Incorporeal Touch (1d6 and 1 vampiric), and 1 fear howl.

The skeletons, however, are CR4, DR5 against anything not bludgeoning, 30 HP, 15 AC and 4 AB. They are, technically harder than the ghosts with those stats. IE, takes more damage to kill, can do more damage in return, and potentially absorb more damage.

If you do the math, someone with 0 AB has the same chance to hit both enemies with an attack (25%) but the skeleton will by default take longer to kill and potentially do more damage to you.

This is how it works out. Now while the ghost can fear, some people do things like Protection from Evil, or have higher fear saves (Will saves, being a halfing, etc).

Their weakness are pretty obvious though. Holy water, cure spells, turning, Their very low AC with no DR (The dodge rate makes them harder to hit, but it's pretty easy to roll above their AC), they are spirits so Spirit Shamans can get bonuses against them, etc.

Tactics are part of the game which is why we do variant monsters. Everything should be the same as fighting a level 3 humanoid otherwise nobody would have to change up anything per dungeon.

[GodBeastX]

Essentially what I'm saying is, if you think a creature in a dungeon is too hard for exp/reward, it's best to speak in numbers than speak in "I found this hard, so it's too hard." Different classes for different situations.

For example, I nerfed ogres because people showed me damage numbers that would two shot tanks, that was not their intent.

[Fezzik]

Are you sure (ducks incoming smiting) that the ghosts don't have DR too? It seemed that when I had a magic weapon, or if it was blessed or otherwise temp enchanted, I could do little or no damage. It might have been changed since the time I was there... PL might have changed them along with the number required to kill.

[thaelis]

Ok, thanks for the comparison. I actually was just comparing them to Spittles though, I haven't seen a single skeleton as yet in my 3 trips down there. I guess maybe because I was alone they didn't spawn?

Another thing...holy water!! never thought of that, hopefully it has an AoE. Otherwise I'll be going through them like the Spittles go through chiefs.

[Sir Kharn]

Party up, I was in a massive party that went into the mossdalest forest the other night and got huge xp...I've also been down into the tomb on valley road both in a party and solo and found i got loads more xp in a group.

[OnyxTigress]

Party up, I was in a massive party that went into the mossdalest forest the other night and got huge xp...I've also been down into the tomb on valley road both in a party and solo and found i got loads more xp in a group.

Yup. It's really best to do things with a party, xp is betters and you have a better chance at surviving.

[RPMike17]

GBX - thanks for the explanation, I understand it much better now! I hope I did not offend with my "out of whack" comment. Should have said "Due to my ignorance..."

[GodBeastX]

I say "whack" all the time Why would I be offended? I don't get offended when people point of perceived issues. As long as you aren't offended by seeing my point of view on the issue

[thaelis]

Thanks for the explanation! You're the boss and what you say goes, of course..

But i still think its out of whack


Edit: and yes, I can see your reasoning. To some classes they are easier than others

[Urithrand]

*saddles up leckith to go murder some spirits*

Finally, something a spirit shaman is useful for!!!