On Perma-death

[prismaticcrow]

I did some searching and didn't find any information on this (although I can be accused of not looking hard enough) but I was wondering, what exactly are the rules concerning permanent character death?

My primary concern is player vs. player perma-death. I understand that in player conflicts there can be "in character" reasons that your opponent should not be coming back (such as dumping your opponent's body into lava, turning them to stone and hiding them somewhere, etc etc.) but to me, such things seem entirely unfair and almost a form of abuse.

The last thing I would want, would be to dump months of real time, effort, fun, and RP into my character, only to "permanently die" because I got jumped by a group of my player enemies and they decide to try and RP that they are completely getting rid of me.

I bring this up because lately, I have noticed that there seem to be bands of Banites roaming around and sometimes getting the drop on lone good guys, or tricking unassuming good guys into ambush. I have no issue with this; it's clever and intelligent. I have no issue with RPing getting captured and suffering at the hands of my captors because it can create great future RP. What I don't want, is for them to decide that they are going to turn me to stone and get rid of my character. Such a thing would actually deter me from wanting to participate in player vs. player conflicts.

So whats the scoop exactly?

[Urithrand]

No player is authorised to perma-kill another player without their full consent.

Only a DM of general, senior or Head DM rank can perma-kill a character without authorisation.

Generally speaking, about 90% of perma-deaths on the server come from the player's own choice, having an epic enough end to be worthwhile remembering.

PvP is an important and integral part of RP, that's why we've just changed the death penalty rules.

[prismaticcrow]

Thanks, Uri, this is good to know.

I suppose I never really knew about this stuff because my characters don't die to other characters very often. Perhaps that will change now that I know this (coupled with the new death penalty rules).

[Phantom Lamb]

The Sundren Wiki holds all our rules for PVP and everything else. But bare in mind, if PVP occurs and you die, there could be consequences about what you remember from the event. There has to be some trade-off to protect the killers if we allow the victim to return to life.

[Handsomeman]

slighty off topic but, when you kill someone in pvp are other players allow to perma-scar the other player? such as removing a limb or body part?
also when the victor loots the defeated character's items that were custom made. would the defeated character wake up one day see his custom item being weilded by the other player pinning him to the crime?

[Doubtful]

Limbs and body parts can be regenerated, although there have been a few cases where scarring has become a permanent feature and character point (Hergar the Joyous being one such case) - I'd suggest that perma-maiming, just as with perma-death, is something that can only be prescribed by a >General DM, or agreed by the player of the character in question.

As for looting an item, if the looter is running around with a prized, and easily identifiable, item, then they shouldn't be surprised when justice stamps their teeth out.

Just remember that as per the rules there is a period of memory loss associated with death, you may recognise that the stuff is yours, but not necessarily identify him as the one who tried to kill you - after all, he may have brought it from a fence.

[GodBeastX]

Personally I only perm people when a blatant choice leads to a situation where a DM would have to bend the universe for you to survive. For example, if you go to the abyss and challenge Graz'zt to a one on one and he takes you out. You're not likely to be heard from again

I have yet to see someone who has been permed with no chance of return from a simple "Death". More often than not, the worse case is severe penalties for awhile. Like an arm missing for a week giving you -6 dex

[Phantom Lamb]

slighty off topic but, when you kill someone in pvp are other players allow to perma-scar the other player? such as removing a limb or body part?
also when the victor loots the defeated character's items that were custom made. would the defeated character wake up one day see his custom item being weilded by the other player pinning him to the crime?

Q1: Yes, they would be scarred, but things can be regenerated, too. Unfortunate side effect of magic environments is damn-near EVERYTHING is curable... but I digress

Q2: Absolutely could pin him for the crime.

[Redjack]

A friend of mine, who's sister's cousin is a actual banite. Told me that they are not seeking to perm anyone. Except perhaps a traitor or two. My friend's sister's cousin will be pleased to hear that their campaign of Fear is working.

[Urithrand]

lmao, I love you Redjack.

[Tome]

The rules seem to vary slightly on this from DM to DM, but generally the main idea is what has been said already: player consent. You might be surprised as to how many players have agreed to their death, as long as it was not something stupid and/or severly unclimatic.

This is understandable really. Sure, someone like Hano dying from slipping and breaking his neck in the shower would be funny for a few minutes, but afterwards would just be a retarded way to go.

Extreme maiming is discouraged. Scaring, marks, curses and such are not so bad, but melting whole bodies, tossing into grinders, disintegration is pretty much a no-no. The whole limb removal thing is a gray area that is better off avoided as it often evokes the debate of what can and cannot come back regeneration spells and what is or is not well-written for a STORY environment. As PL said, magic kinda can cure just about everything supposedly but many of us follow the bad writing < 'cannon' < good writing formula, which tends to dampen magical 'cure-alls' just a tad.

The best thing to do regarding pvp and pvp-esque deaths is negotiate. Think about what would make the story better for you as characters and for Sundren's story as a whole. True, using the swoon method over and over again can get lame, but is still better than the alternative. Keep in mind that even if your pc does manage to pull through, you respect the 15 min rule (which can also be negotiated).

As for DM-claimed deaths, as Uri said only generals and higher can make that call and while we all tend to follow a slightly different path in this matter, none of us are eager to utilzie perma often.

[Firechicken]

Scaring, marks, curses and such are not so bad <-- On that.. Some people who pay others to kill someone >.> they want something to prove that it happend.. Mostly something small like a finger or a ear.. Would that be okay? If so how would you go about doing that? Would you send a tell or what?

[Phantom Lamb]

You could certainly take it, but it could grow back with a regeneration spell.

Sometimes bad things happen of which you have no control over folks. Good role players roll with the punches and enjoy a good story

[Kaizen]

Scaring, marks, curses and such are not so bad

Alllriiiggghht. I've always wanted to give the populace of Sundren Harry Potter lightning scars.

[Tome]

In the past I've allowed pcs that I've taken down in pvp for whatever reason to use a signus to escape a dire situation. Basicially, for the cost of a signus, they managed to run off wounded, teleport away, or have the luck of a patrol coming the way of our battle too quickly for me to take him off to be tortured, interrogated, etc.

The price of a signus is hefty, but since it allowed for pretty much a full escape despite losing, I was okay with it. They'll run out of siggies sooner or later and since it was their way of negotiating, I was willing to go with it.

This of course was when I was a pc. Now that I am a DM, I just smite people based on whether or not I had a bad day at work.