Crafting Discussion - What would you like to see?

[Ithildin]

Have to agree with Tass' post, on the nwn server I played on we had a custom system where you had to work to become a master. With the OC system all we do is stick points in stuff as we level. Anyone could be a master without crafting a single thing.

[Ithildur]

Have to agree with Tass' post, on the nwn server I played on we had a custom system where you had to work to become a master. With the OC system all we do is stick points in stuff as we level. Anyone could be a master without crafting a single thing.

If you think in terms of numbercrunching in a server where you gain lvls every other day and have skill points to throw around, then yeah, you're right. But if you think in terms of RPing your PC in a slower leveling DnD system, it's not just 'sticking a few points'. You can RP the gaining/assigning of the now much more precious skill points, not just think in terms of 'I'm going to lvl 3 times next week, I'll have 5 spare points i can throw around so I'll stick them in armor crafting, and i can make this armor'.

We don't gain xp in combat in DnD by swinging a blade x number of times to gain 10 xp; gaining 10 xp for killing a goblin with a party of 4 is an abstraction, and it's one that works and is more fun for most people, more so than keeping track of the 200th time you swung that sword. There are game systems where they tried approaches like that; they aren't very popular.

I think crafting is similar, though not exactly the same; the 3edition crafting rules are fundamentally quite sound from most people's experience with it; it's congruent with the rest of the D20 system. It's just like xp and ability scores and other skill points, feats, etc. People can take them just sheerly as game mechanics/numbers to crunch, but you don't have to and it's more fun if you RP those aspects (not claiming I always do this well, but I admire and respect the people that do), so you can RP gaining skill points in crafting similar to gaining lvls in combat - and again, with the slower lvling, no one's going to be turning into a master crafter overnight, unless they start the PC as an experienced crafter which you can viably do at lvl 3. I'm sure someone that does plan their PC that way put thought into it and actually will RP them as a crafter, not just 'stick points' into crafting skills.

[Keskul]

I think most of the items for crafting should be available at a merchant. Only some of the higher level stuff have at least one rare drop item needed in it's recipe that you would have to outsource for, or even go get yourself. As for exp cost, eh, I'm pretty partial on this aspect. Some of me can see why it's needed, but another part of me doesn't like the thought of it. If the exp penalty was fairly minimal I wouldn't mind. But if it was high like in real PNP then I wouldn't like that much. I don't think any kind of exp penalty should ever be applied to things like non-magical items ie armor/weapons or potions. Simple cost for the ingredients is sufficient I think for those items. But, things like uber weapons/armor/wands could use some exp cost to kind of balance it out. Also, I think that having an exp cost on crafting would make crafter classes want to grind more, but thats just me.

I agree with the person who mentioned crafting bandages. Even if it's just only the +1 kind. With the new resting limit it makes bandages very, very nice items to have around so being able to craft some yourself would be awesome. Also, is there a reason why bandages are so much more expensive than potions? Is it because you can take a 20 on the heal check?

One last thing. I have been playing PNP D&D for probably 7 years now and never, ever, have I seen anyone craft anything in any of the games I've played/ran. No-one crafts in PNP D&D because it just takes FOREVER timewise and costs a ton of exp. Usually the PC's don't have the time to sit around in a town for 3 weeks to craft a wand of magic missles. Now, I don't like bringing up the evil exp word but I just want to say this, people love their exp, more than their families it seems, they don't like to part with it especially when they can just buy stuff from a merchant. But, this could just be the group of people I game with, they are a bit retarded... But, thats PNP and not NWN2. :P

[Anauroch]

Subtracting xp from PCs i believe in pnp is supposed to reflect the extensive time spent making the item which could've been spent adventuring for more xp, isn't it? correct me if I'm wrong.

No... that is in addition to not being able to gain XP if the crafter were to adventure instead.

[edgedy]

I'm torn between two kinds of forging.

One kind, you take an already existing weapon, and add enchantments to it upto a point. That point being the maximum strength that can be added to it.

The other kind, you create weapons from scratch.

As I perfer customization of a character, I'm more inclined towards the first kind of enchanting as it allows for each person's equipment to be more unique.

That said, control of it will be difficult because you'd have to establish a base line of weapons that are forgable. Say for example, if you take a blessing of daystar and start adding more enchantments to it, thats just rediculous.

Basic magic items, like belts, boots, are more controllable. I think the most trouble will be concerning swords and armor. General feeling for me is if we implement forging you'd need to start with a baseline metal, and enchant it once, and only once from there. This would allow you to make a good supply of low end weapons for new players, and at the same time create a truly amazing artifact that would require a massive toll on the enchanter( be it in experience, gold, or both along with items).

[Tassafina]

If you think in terms of numbercrunching in a server where you gain lvls every other day and have skill points to throw around, then yeah, you're right. But if you think in terms of RPing your PC in a slower leveling DnD system, it's not just 'sticking a few points'. You can RP the gaining/assigning of the now much more precious skill points, not just think in terms of 'I'm going to lvl 3 times next week, I'll have 5 spare points i can throw around so I'll stick them in armor crafting, and i can make this armor'.

We don't gain xp in combat in DnD by swinging a blade x number of times to gain 10 xp; gaining 10 xp for killing a goblin with a party of 4 is an abstraction, and it's one that works and is more fun for most people, more so than keeping track of the 200th time you swung that sword. There are game systems where they tried approaches like that; they aren't very popular.

I think crafting is similar, though not exactly the same; the 3edition crafting rules are fundamentally quite sound from most people's experience with it; it's congruent with the rest of the D20 system. It's just like xp and ability scores and other skill points, feats, etc. People can take them just sheerly as game mechanics/numbers to crunch, but you don't have to and it's more fun if you RP those aspects (not claiming I always do this well, but I admire and respect the people that do), so you can RP gaining skill points in crafting similar to gaining lvls in combat - and again, with the slower lvling, no one's going to be turning into a master crafter overnight, unless they start the PC as an experienced crafter which you can viably do at lvl 3. I'm sure someone that does plan their PC that way put thought into it and actually will RP them as a crafter, not just 'stick points' into crafting skills.

I know...the grinding was a bit much from before but would be great if we had something in between. Really dont like the fact that you can be a master at something and never even do it once. Your skills make sense going up...your using them..at least most of them. What would be neat is if you had it broken down into 4 or five different levels...Like Apprentice, Novice, Journeyman, and Master. In order to progress to the next level you needed to make a product/item. It would be like a mini quest for each level to find the neccessary ingrediants to make your project. This I think would give a lot more sense of accomplishment without tons of grinding.