Charm and dominate

[OzmaDarkheart]

How do the charm and dominate spells work in a PvP environment?
Are they actually effective? Should the same protocols that have been established for pick-pocketing someone be used for this as well?

All of these questions have recently come to mind, while I was thinking of a new character. Any response or opinion is appreciated.

[Pulseczar]

In NWN 1, the charm and dominate spells only put a daze on the target (in PvP).

Unless the target was a modified PC. There was a vampire PC on the server I played on, my mage loved hitting it with Control Undead beacuse it turned the PC into a henchman. My PCs voice commands could directly control the Vampire PC. Oh so much fun.

I don't know how they act in NWN 2, but I think it's a safe assumption to say they just put a daze effect on the PC. I may be wrong.

[Anauroch]

I think those spells are way cool for RP PvP. Yes, you read correctly 'RP PvP'.

As per the PnP rules, Dominate Person lasts 1day/level and Charm Person lasts 1 hour/level. Dominate makes people do what you tell them to (there are exceptions), Charm Person makes them believe you are a trusted friend.


But seriously - for the sake of everyone's fun: Ask first if the other player is willing to go along with this. Otherwise, if you just want to use the game engine - no idea! All I know is that Dominate Person for instance has only a very short duration.

[Ichbin]

I personally think its a great way to see what'll happen if someone tries to take over your character. I think if you fail the save, you should RP doing whatever the PC wants, with the exception of potentially killing yourself.
The only reason why ppl are all against this is because of vanity. Nobody wants there all mighty god of killing everything, captian of the gaurd, leader of the Red/Lotus/Black/White/Green blades get Dominated and made to pick his/her nose in public for the whole day while drooling...

Im sry, but thats the real reason why everyone would hate the spell if it worked like it was supposed to.

Now if the caster fails (and your spellcraft check succeeds, so you KNOW what he/she casted), or he/she forgets to tell you to forget everything that happened near the end of the spell...then by all means kill the jerk if your hearts up for it!
I see no problem with it, but I know nobody wants to look like an azz, so they're just gonna bomb the usage of this all the way. Am I right or am I wrong?

[Anauroch]

I see no problem with it, but I know nobody wants to look like an azz, so they're just gonna bomb the usage of this all the way. Am I right or am I wrong?

Well, that's why I call it RP PvP... and that the other player would have to agree with it. If someone would just walk up and go OOC "gonna dominate your character - 1 day/ level - you must do as I say then, k?" then I'm going to laugh in his face, too!

But it could make for some awesome rp if it is not just done 'for the sake of it' as in 'I can do it so I will'. It takes mature players. Good that the engine does not work this way because then there would be problems just like you say.

[Ithildur]

Agree with Anauroch; this can be RPed and to good effect, if players will handle it maturely. There are a lot of other elements that you can 'RP PvP' too and can be very fun/good RP, but again, requires a different mentality.

On DM events, I did have a dm here allow me to cast charm person on a Banite and go with the PnP duration and RP it out, after first checking with him. It worked out great.

I prefer the term used on a NWN1 server I played in; CvC, character vs character, rather than PvP, player vs player. Really, for a RP setting, that's what it is. You RP character conflicts, not just try to 'beat' another player; that latter mentality doesn't lead to good RP. You keep IC conflict and OOC feelings separate; the ideal is when two players who get along well and respect each others' RP have PCs that end up being rivals or deadly enemies; that leads to some of the best CvC RP that I've seen, which may or may not result in physical confrontation/death of one PC.

[Ethereal Edge]

Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject?s mind.

If you and the subject have a common language, you can generally force the subject to perform as you desire, within the limits of its abilities. If no common language exists, you can communicate only basic commands, such as ?Come here,? ?Go there,? ?Fight,? and ?Stand still.? You know what the subject is experiencing, but you do not receive direct sensory input from it, nor can it communicate with you telepathically.

Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject?s behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).

Changing your instructions or giving a dominated creature a new command is the equivalent of redirecting a spell, so it is a move action.

By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can?t communicate with you. You can?t actually see through the subject?s eyes, so it?s not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what?s going on.

Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited, as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the subject to control it.

If you don?t spend at least 1 round concentrating on the spell each day, the subject receives a new saving throw to throw off the domination.

Protection from evil or a similar spell can prevent you from exercising control or using the telepathic link while the subject is so warded, but such an effect neither prevents the establishment of domination nor dispels it.

Just in case anyone wants the exact spell description.

[Ichbin]

Thx Ethereal Edge, the point though is ppl dont like it coz they're vane about their character. Asking someone before hand is just not fun! What if I hated you IC, so I wanna dominate you to make a fool of you. You'll just say No..oops, BIG SURPRISE.
Asking someone before hand just isnt fun, now what you SHOULD have is a good reason for doing it...like hating the guy,or protecting yourself ("Attack your friend before he kills meeee!"). If your just doing it to be stupid, then a DM should call you on that and stop it.

[GodBeastX]

If people cast a spell on you like this, I treat it like a PVP action. Obviously you're going to have to tell the person you're going to do it so that if you succeed they can RP it out.

People who are dominated who don't want to be dominated, roll the will save. Just like PVP you can't say "No, I don't want to be dominated."

However, any order that breaks server rules will be considered made by the dominator. So don't dominate people then ask then try to make them kiss you (Unless they say they will allow it ooc) since this is kind of sexual harassment which is against server policy. Things like that.

[Cheatcake]

Just oughta be smart about it. You can't order someone to forget you were controlling them, it's not something a person can willingly do, and even if they could the order would vanish as soon as the spell ended

Also, people who succeed on the saving throw do feel a "hostile tingle", so while they might not know what you were casting at them, they will feel it wasn't something they wanted for sure

[Ethereal Edge]

Cheatcake is right. You cannot modify the memory of an individual without using high-level vile spells.

[undeadsteak]

Huh, Dominate person is a fun spell, make the person tell you everything ^_^.