Taunt and RP

[dieOrg]

Hi,

I was just wondering what the thoughts are on using Taunt in normal RP. What are the expected results of a successfull roll and an unseccessfull one by the parties involved?

Is it just used to get somebody else to throw the first punch or are there more considerations for RP?

[Verrath]

The big question is, what is the counter roll to Taunt? Concentration? Will save? (The latter seems unfair)

I'd say if there is a skill that fits what your PC is trying to do (be it tying someone up or trying to bully/persuade/badger them, or whatever else comes handy), it makes for more randomness (and therefore more fun) if you do use it.

[Kaeldorn]

It used to be concentration in vanilla NWN, but that made it really easy to taunt rogues and warriors. Will made it slightly more even spread. Personally I think the NWN1 discipline skill would be what's best suited, but that doesn't exist anymore

The way taunt is handled currently is a will save vs. taunt rank (not roll). Which makes no sense because your taunt would always be equally good. I think it's best to simply RP it out without rules, but if we really need rules for it then they have to be custom tailored, as taunt isn't a true D&D skill.

If someone wants to attack you should be up to him as a player though. If someone with super taunt skill were able to get all the Legionnaires fired and the Triumvirate imprisoned for their deeds, that would stink. What taunt should be used for in RP is to throw someone mentally off-guard. People who jump to the defensive or become aggravated are more likely to spill details they'd otherwise keep to themselves, or say things in public that can make them impopular.

For instance:
If a hin subtly insults a human fighter's intelligence because he got pickpocketed by someone, the human may turn to him and say 'You did it, didn't you? Bloody halfling thieves! Give back my money!'
The other halflings around the camp - who might not be thieves at all - won't be happy to hear that.
A poor roll would result in a more controlled response like. 'Shut it, nobody asked for your 'input', brat. Say it if you know anything or scram.'

[Fezzik]

Not that it's completely the same, but the same can be said for intimidate. Not everyone is going to pull a knife, and not everyone is going to sit there and fume... most people would just cross the street.

I mean, we could take a poll and ask how many people would walk through a group of Hell's Angels swinging chains and wearing sunglasses walking down a sidewalk on a nice sunny afternoon?

Taunt is more like the yahoo's on the highway that cut you off and give you the finger.... Intimidate is the aresholes that ride you're bumper.... except the Semi's they're really sweet people * looks around nervously *

[gbbishop]

taunt for enraging.
intimidate for subduing.

and the standard scale should apply just like with perform there is no counter skill to perform.

10 is ok
15 is better
20 is good
25 is...
anyway
40 should be extraordinary.

[fasthd97]

I played on a couple of servers that used sense motive as the counter.

[Kaeldorn]

That's a possibility, I guess. Seeing through someone's intentions to alter your reaction. Though then it'd come down to willpower again if you can actually control yourself.

[gbbishop]

yeah but a SR vs a Skill check is nearly always going to lose... that is why the never oppose in pnp.

i like the sense motive idea...

or perhaps the will save could be a modifier for the taunt roll?

eg... billy taunts bob with a skill check of 27 and bob rolls a 17 willsave.
billys effective taunt would be 10 which in the scale would be ok...

i dunno it's not perfect but it's a thought.

[Espada]

My problem is that Skills scale higher and faster than saves and they should not be used in opposition to one another, as its unfair for all the classes that arent skill based or skill heavy.

[TheBlankStare]

I see where you're coming from, Espada, and you're exactly right. You should really have skills oppose each other. Sense Motive is the best choice too. It'll be able to tell you if the rude little hin means it or is just trying to get under your skin. Either way, you can put a beat down on the hin for being dumb enough to mock a guy with who has muscles on his muscles.

But if a fighter really wants to learn a bit more about the nuances of how people can get under his skin he could certainly takes levels of classes that have good will saves and even invest in feats like Iron Will. (Any fighter who doesn't want to end up killing his friends should be taking that feat anyway.)

[wangxiuming]

From a purely logical standpoint, sometimes, even when you know somebody is taunting you, you can't help but take the bait anyway. Depending on how good the taunt is, your emotion can overwhelm your better sense of reason.

Similarly with intimidate - you can know someone is trying to intimidate you, but knowing doesn't really make it less likely that you won't be intimidated. Unless the intimidate is actually a bluff in disguise. Does that make sense?

Just two pennies

[Phantom Lamb]

I think Sense Motive is a good compromise for the counter in role play. Skills scale vs. skills scale.

[TheBlankStare]

Of course the RP behind the taunt is going to make a difference too. I'm pretty unlikely to respond to a taunt (or a bluff or an intimidate or a diplomacy roll for that matter) that is just rolled to attempt it. There needs to be something behind the roll for it to have an effect. Who knows? If you have a great RP taunt in mind before you roll the tauntee might just give you a bonus to the roll too.

I've seen lots of people give bonuses to RP rolls for using things that you might have found out about their backgrounds in the conversations.

[Verrath]

Concentration works too - look at it as concentrating on staying calm. Which in a way makes sense as the fighter types (who don't generally invest in this) tend to be more hot blooded than the caster types

[Fezzik]

I don't wholly agree with the "If you can't do the RP properly or make me think it's good, I'm not going to respond to it" Theory. Yes, it would be nice if everyone was a perfect RPer but no one is... with the exception of maybe the DM's (Sense Motive roll please). Some people can't think of stuff off the cuff that their PC's would... (So then don't play those types of char!! -- yeah, then half the world would we playing dimwitted barbarians with rudimentary social skills) Besides, not everyone uses emotes to the full extent they could, but who wants to type out something like...

* narrows his eyes and gives a grin only rumpulestilskin could give after acquiring the Baby, moving all of his fingers like playing a rapid piano rift with his arms slightly bent at the shoulders and his left ear twitching every so slightly to draw off attention to the subtle evil twitch in his mustache * You couldn't fight your way out of a Paper Bag!

Honestly, but that time, the other person has probably done 10 other things...

I personally think the rolls are there to AID the player, not as a crutch, but to help in the RP, sometimes the person just isn't terribly good at conveying what they mean, a good roll conveys that, if you use your imagination; if Henry Kissenger had come up to me to try to get me to buy the latest cell phone plan, sure, but looking at him, I'd probably laugh, but honestly, he isn't noted for much less than his dimplomatic skills, but go find a clip and listen to him talk for 5 seconds and see if it inspires you.... it's the whole picture, not just the words behind it.