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**Urithrand** · 07-07-2009, 12:36 PM

I'm sure I won't be the only person to ask, but why have all these feats been disabled? I can understand epic spells and such, but auto metamagic? Armor skin? Epic focus/specialisation? I don't understand how these feats damage "balance" when a character's already level 21...?

In fact just out of curiosity - which epic feats will be available?

**Kaeldorn** · 07-07-2009, 01:01 PM

Reason for them being disabled is because they are significantly better combat-wise than other feats.

Restricting them has two positive effects:
- People will be more inclined to make an RP-based choice for a feat rather than one of the super duper epic feats just to be 'up to par'
- Encounters will all be balanced towards non-epic levels, and most of these feats just give too extreme numbers to keep things in check

To give an example on the latter:
If Dwarven Defender A gets Armor Skin, (s)he will have so much AC that nothing will ever hit him except if it rolls a 20. If we change the encounters to be more challenging for him, they will be too hard for any party that doesn't have an insanely buff tank with every single possible perk up front. Everyone would absolutely HAVE to have armor skin to even be worth considering to fulfill that role

If Thayan Knight B gets Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Prowess, (s)he will have such a high AB potential that everything can be chopped up to bits so easily, that it trivialises content for him. Again, same story as above, tuning difficulty towards that would result in everyone requiring at least to take that feats.

If Red Wizard C takes an Epic Spell Focus feat, his DC's will be so high that they're impossible to resist at all. He can cast instant kill spells on pretty much every boss we put in the game and succeed at it. Or worse, do it on players.

Bottomline: most epic feats are simply too significant. Especially in a low-magic world where we have no +10 saves and +8 stats bonus gear to protect from it or make up for it.

**TamurtheLame** · 07-07-2009, 01:03 PM

I was really looking forward to Bane of Enemies for my ranger. I don't understand why this was disabled; however, I do not know the whole story either.

I am sure there was a good reason, although I curse you, curse you.....(just kidding!)

**Phantom Lamb** · 07-07-2009, 01:07 PM

Thanks Kael, I'm glad this decision was implemented

**Deathevn** · 07-07-2009, 01:20 PM

Out of curosity, and chiming in with Urithrand. Could we have a list of which ones will be acessable? The reason I am asking it is not just for personal knowldge, but apon seeing the list of what we CAN have, a situation down the road wont arise where a feat thats not on your restricted list, despite actualy wanting to restrict it, arises and no player has to delevel to retake a new one or will have taken all the prereqs for a feat they can never have?

(for example, I dont see vampiric feast in the list of epic spells removed? ps: I dont recall if thats the exact name of the spell, ive only played on low level worlds prior to this, but I remeber reading it in the manual))

**Kaeldorn** · 07-07-2009, 01:28 PM

Vampiric Feast was already on the list

Bane of Enemies is +2 attack and +2d6 damage against all favored enemies (5). Which is a damn lot. Clearly in the league of the epic focuses and specializations.

I don't have an actual list of what is still in, because many others were already disabled by Obsidian, such as Devastating Critical.

Here's a bunch I know by heart that's still in there:

Epic Spell Penetration
Epic Prowess
Improved Whirlwind
Epic Toughness
Epic Reflexes
Epic Fortitude
Epic Will
Last Stand
One Shot
Epic Eldritch Blast
Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
Armed Deflection
Deflection
Epic Divine Might
Great Smiting
Epic Energy Resistance
Epic Dodge
Concealment
Automatic Still Spell (0-3)
Automatic Silent Spell (0-3)
Automatic Quicken (0-1, 0-2 and 0-3)
Planar Turning
Great Strength
Great Dexterity
Great Constitution
Great Intelligence
Great Wisdom
Great Charisma
Blinding Speed
Epic Damage Reduction
Epic Lasting Inspiration
Epic Shadowlord
Epic Fiend

**Deathevn** · 07-07-2009, 01:49 PM

... Uhhh yep it was... I was tempoarily blinded!.. yeah thats it.. blinded... didnt happen!

(( oops heh))

**Zoberraz** · 07-07-2009, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by TamurtheLame View Post

I was really looking forward to Bane of Enemies for my ranger. I don't understand why this was disabled; however, I do not know the whole story either.

Haauuuu~ T_T

Well, at least One-Shot is still there. And we can still pick up Improved Favored Enemy if we really want to dish out more damage against a particular kind of favored enemy.

Dang it, though. I was always telling myself "If my ranger ever gets to level 21, she'll get One-Shot and Bane of Enemies". The rest of the feats didn't feel all that 'rangery'.

Oh well. At least we still have One-Shot *tries to mollifies himself with that*

**Kangleton** · 07-12-2009, 02:57 AM

You took out things like Epic Weapon Focus, but you left Epic Dodge? What the hell is the criteria for "overpowered", then?

You consider +2AB to be more game-breaking than a feat that allows someone to automatically dodge the first attack of every round? And you took out Epic Spell Focus to prevent a Wizard from upping their DC's to something that still won't even compare to a Druid who doesn't have any Spell Focus feats at all?

If a Druid puts up Owl's Insight his Wisdom becomes high enough that he supersedes all three feats. Was it so detrimental for a Wizard to compete with a Druid? I have probably the highest level Druid on the server, along with probably the highest level Wizard - Red Wizard even - and therefore the highest DC's on both classes. Let me tell you that you've gimped one and in so doing, empowered the other. Unless you're going to now go back and gimp both, you haven't achieved anything in the way of balancing. And if you do in fact go back to gimp, where does it end?

The feats that you've taken away are, for the most part, by no means overpowered. The whole challenge in character-building and PvP is the "rock-paper-scissors" element, whereby there's always something that beats something else, and nothing is without weakness. Sure, someone who stacks the entire Weapon Focus line along with Epic Prowess and Epic Weapon Specialization will hit like a butcher, but uh, what happens when someone lays down an Improved Disarm and ruins the benefit of a huge portion of his feats? Without his weapon of choice, that guy is finished, and that's by no means the only example of how one feat counters the next.

For one, Armor Skin and Epic Weapon Focus completely counteract each other, so I don't know on what basis either of them are overpowered. One is +2AB and the other is +2AC, so one is basically the required resource to hit the other. Pretty simple thread of logic. Moreover, Epic Spell Focus ups DC's, sure, but the Epic Save feats that you left in are specifically designed to help combat said DC's. In fact, taking any one of those feats almost entirely counteracts all three Spell Focus feats, giving a +4 to saves. Feats counteract other feats - that's the point of the entire combat system of NWN and D&D.

And by the way, that whole Dwarven Defender argument is ridiculous. An Epic Level Dwarven Defender, using Full Plate and a Tower Shield, would have an AC of 34 if he took Armor Skin and had Defensive Stance up, which prevents him from moving (shoot him with arrows? spells?), bringing him about six points behind anyone who has access to the 9th level Shapechange spell, which includes Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, Favoured Souls, Spirit Shamans, and Druids. These are all classes that can be taken by any race, with very few restrictions, and they can all move with their even higher AC.

Just take a step back and look at the feats you removed. You removed all of them because they're overpowered, but if that were true, what's the issue? In a game where every single thing is overpowered, nobody is really disadvantaged, are they?

I, for one, don't understand your decision whatsoever. If it was to encourage RP choices, I guess that flies right over my head. The list of available feats don't really look like they offer mind-blowing RP in comparison to the ones that aren't available.

I guess I'll have to learn to RP having amazing reflexes instead of having a Dragon Companion. I'm sure juggling shurikens at the campfire will make for a much greater conversation piece than a nifty, exotic creature. RPing is fun on account of the expanding, limitless options available in a fictional setting - taking away said options, or imposing a limit, detracts from the fun.

**Subal** · 07-12-2009, 03:24 AM

ummmm gromlin with these epic's and his gear....yeaaaaaaaah . 34 armor is waaaaay understatement. i can understand too a degree of some of this stuff being taken out, but wtf do i know, im a dwarf and i hit stuff with a axe.
Although i was looking forward too the armor feat *sighs*

**Kangleton** · 07-12-2009, 03:59 AM

Gear obviously wasn't added into the equation on account of it being a universal benefit that can apply to any character. Moreover, the exact number isn't even terribly of consequence. Give me 12 hours and a little more motivation than I actually have, and I'll come up with one or two dozen builds that get roughly the same amount of AC as this dreaded Dwarven Defender.

The same Dwarven Defender that should be feared for Damage Reduction, which is actually still allowed in the feats, while AC is not.

**Kaeldorn** · 07-12-2009, 08:57 AM

Choices were based not on how effective something is for 'duelling' or PvP. That's actually of very little consequence as far as I'm concerned, since it's not the purpose of the server and whatever happens in it I'm sure can be roleplayed out.

Feats were filtered based on comparison with other feats (non-epic feats also) for how 'competitive' they are in a PvE environment. Once people start to feel they have to have one of a select few number of feats to keep up with everyone else, it actually limits your options in character building rather than increasing them.

Think about it. What are the first feats every fighter thinks about taking upon reaching 21st level? Epic Weapon Focus, Armor Skin or Epic Weapon Specialisation. What is the first feat every single ranger would take at 21st level? Bane of enemies. What feats would every single offensive spellcaster choose from? Epic Spell Focus in their preferred offensive school, or one of the epic spells. Every druid would run around with a dragon pet, every bard would start mass murder while singing, and every rogue would suddenly be able to sneak attack everything.

The feats that are left untouched may still have a bit of power, but their general usefulness in PvE is much less noticeable. Sure, you might have epic dodge, but with the amount of dexterity that you need to get it you've already 'gimped' your damage output compared to other frontliners. It's not that extremely powerful when you are fighting multiple enemies, and to all except perhaps monks and dex-based fighters (who, I might add, really get the short end of the stick almost everywhere else) it's more of an escape feat than something allowing them to avoid consecutive hits.

The epic saves feats are pretty nice, yes. But you need the basic feat as a prerequisite, which is so-so, and the number of situations where you'll actually find these feats useful are not so common. That's the case with many feats that only have a passive component. Armor skin will help you against every melee or ranged attack, but saves feats only help any if you get a spell cast on you, and then still that fortitude save will do nothing against a fireball. Now, you might ask, why leave concealment in? It's only 10% per feat taken in it, so it gives a static 10% avoidance regardless of AC. That's easier to keep in check than 2 points of AC. Same with damage reduction. Basically every strong warrior enemy you'll meet past 20 will pretty much cut right through it.

**Onikukki** · 07-12-2009, 01:38 PM

I kind of agree with Kangleton, isn't this restricting RP in some ways? I mean, I made my build with completely with RP in mind, taking feats that make sense for my character to have and rp, but now some of those are restricted. Example, you restricted Combat Insight which changes your damage rolls from strength to Int, right? Well, for a duelist, fighting is more about their wit and tactics than strength, but by taking that away they're less able to display that in battle, unless you were to completely RP the whole battle out with dice rolls. Also, since most of the "overpowered" feats counter-act eachother, are they really that overpowering?
Sorry if I'm just bringing up the same thing you just explained, sort of hard to get a post in with everyone else typing at the same time.

**Kaeldorn** · 07-12-2009, 01:51 PM

Combat Insight was disabled so that Swashbucklers won't get double stacking int modifiers on their damage. Without Swashbucklers I wouldn't have disabled it.

Also, since most of the "overpowered" feats counter-act eachother, are they really that overpowering?

Compared to other feats, yes.

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