To Skullcleavers or others with constructive input

[DurinRustbeard]

Heya guys, I'm trying to work on a standardized reward system for the cleavers so that we can get folks some things for their hard work. The problem I run in to at the moment is that I have little to no idea of how to evaluate various components value. The new system (not complaining) has made every step much more valuable, and thus the cost of the end product has to be figured from the ground up. Since not all of the recipes are known I can only evaluate the value of certain things as I learn of thier requirement in the process.

I am contemplating offering either coin (as if the dwarves were being payed) from the coffers for work completed and supplies turned in for the dwarves to spend as they wish, and then also put appropriate prices on each product the dwarves produce and give the members first dibs on these items and 15-20% off the marked price that may be offered to outsiders. The Price of the final products still elude me, since fatigue is a hard thing to value, but any helpful input would be appreciated.

[Belwas]

perhaps start with some readily available items that we have plans for and work backward. It will need to be an evolving process but that should get us to a stating point.

[Fezzik]

Maybe just use the appraised value as a basis and go from there. Once they come in the game, elemental damage weapons aren't going to be as nasty, but also I think in the long run, not as expensive either.

Folina was going to charge people 800 staggs / sundrite ore (non dwarves of course... stinky longlegs) because that was the appraised value she did (actually it was 900)

[DurinRustbeard]

Well, I thought to test your system of using appraise, but as I remember it, appraise is a very NON-sundren system when working with ore, gems, etc. It may work on Magical items, but otherwise its a bit fickle on what it decides is valued at what.

According to appraise of 21,

Dsteel unrefined = 458 each (Apparently its more valueable unrefined)
Dsteel Refined = 250 each (seems low)
Alchemical Silver = 130 each (seems maybe right?)
Silver ingot = 65 each (eh, maybe low?)
Sundrite steel = 180 each (laughs)
Copper Refined = 20 each (seems ok to me)
Iron Refined = 7 each (seems ok to me)
Cold iron = 70 each (abit low?)
Adamantine Refined = 550 each (Bahahahah)

I'm working on a system now, and I'll try to get it posted or atleast sent to those whome it involves. Keep posting ideas tho, we'll get something figured out. And from the initial research I've done it seems enchanting wont get much cheaper than what it was, other than that wondrous items may be cheaper.

[Kaeldorn]

Looks like your appraise skill checks weren't perfect

I don't want to influence the values that players give to items TOO much. However, bear in mind that much of the cost for higher quality items goes into gold/fatigue. So, to stop things from getting out of hand in the long run, I'll drop you a hint. You 'bahahaha'd' on a metal you over-appraised for intended value

Also bear in mind that appraising stacks gives value for the entire stack...

[Fezzik]

I think that's old Adamantine, since we haven't mined any of the new stuff (don't know if it's been changed yet)... his appraise skill is pretty through the roof though.

[Kaeldorn]

Two of his appraises are off by more than 25%, excluding the one that seems to have been an appraise of a two-stack.

All metal INGOTS should have the same appraise value as they used to, and are accurate all but one. Gems are not, obviously, though they do have an intended value which I'm not going to post here

[Allielliot]

I think that Belwas is right. WE have to start with an end product. See what the recipe requires, then work backwards for a cost. this will be difficult at first, but once we start getting values for base items it will get a little easier. though the values won't stay very constant due to finding new recipies....i just talked in a circle...crap.

[DurinRustbeard]

Ok so your post there kael says that we can trust the ingots value when appraised, and I'm assuming I can try re-appraising all these later and it might fix the ones I missed? I have 23 appraise so maybe I just had some bad rolls.

I'm unsure what to value gems at, since we have no clue to their rarity now and appraise doesn't function as I imagine it should for sundrens economy on them. Me and Fezz spent quite some time working on something, and after some more testing I might use that as the determining factor for initial prices.

Just hang in there guys we'll figure out something sooner or later.

[Kaeldorn]

Ok so your post there kael says that we can trust the ingots value when appraised, and I'm assuming I can try re-appraising all these later and it might fix the ones I missed? I have 23 appraise so maybe I just had some bad rolls.

Yes and no. You can't re-appraise already appraised items, because your roll on them is stored. But correct appraisals should be accurate, bar one really obviously mispriced metal in terms of usefulness/actual value.

It's odd that you'd miss those few checks on such a high appraise, though. There shouldn't be so much deviation from their toolset value.

[DurinRustbeard]

Well I tried them again and got new numbers for some of them

Iron - 5
Cold Iron - 70
Silver - 60
Copper - 20
Adam -440
Sundrite - 180
Dsteel 375
Alchem - 90

I'm guessing I'm closer now

[Kaeldorn]

Pff, weird

Especially the darksteel one. You got it right the first time around.

[gbbishop]

well here is where i feel the issue lies... we used to know roughly how rare certain things were... so we had an idea of the supply... and we knew the things they could be used for... so we knew the demand. now we have a new system... but the character knowledge should still be there.. items should not have just changed over night. nor should the uses for the items. (but they have...)

so an IG hint as to the value of these new items should be available... either through accurate appraise checks and such or through a little bit of info.

from what kael has said and correct me if i am wrong... the appraise is sundren-ified. and we should be okay if we go off of that. anyway it's as good a place to start as any... we will soon know if we are over/under charging.

it's bizarre because we have already established supply and demand in this world and now we have to do it all over again...

that said, the new system is far superior and i think well worth out efforts. i just ask a boon from dev team: that if there are any glaring differences in the value of old items and there updated counter parts. (like if blue diamonds are now no longer needed for any recipes or a once rare metal is now more available)
that we hear about it in a post or in game and word can spread that something has changed and what we once thought was great, is now just a trinket.

[DurinRustbeard]

As I work through the numbers and thanks to Kael being sympathetic to our plight I have a minorly better idea as to if our new evaluation system is appropriate. So far it seems ok, as new items are appraisable, I'll be able to better refine it, but it is an equasion that allows us to take into account DC, Fatigue, item cost, and component cost when making a pricetag. I'll likely get something put up tomorrow.

[Allielliot]

Thanks again for all of your work Durin. And as for the Devs your work is amazing. Thanks. to everyone.