The timer on changing cloths.

[Fezzik]

...went to a Rennisance Festival once and had them put some plate type armor on me an it took nearly 30 minutes and that was with the help of experienced. . . helpers.

Was that full tilting gear? There is a HUGE difference between tilting armour and "normal" 12-13th century "full plate" . As Biohazard mentioned Freddy 5's plate was 110 kg... that's not normal battle gear. Medieval armour was made for a knight to get up if needed... on the battlefield, if you fall of your horse, you really kinda need to get up so your not vulnerable! I've dressed and seen people dress in armour that's close being between Scale and Full Plate, and the timing, if you're alone and in a hurry, is pretty much right. Armour was made to be taken off and put on with ease, as well as worn with ease - you needed to be prepared if you were going into battle, or at least be able to get dressed quickly if you had reports of the enemy 10 minutes away! Here ends my rant.

[Azulfae]

Sorry to wake this up again.

This equipping armour time thing was novel for a time, although I never really liked it personally, it's just getting more and more infuriating.

Reasons to have this:

1. Players who don't play tanks and don't like players who play tanks can have a feel good that we are suffering.

2. Roleplay, some players just don't and they were whipping armour on and off running around fighting and resting isn the most rediculous places whipping off a suit of heavy plate like it was a cloth shirt to rest for a mere second and then get right back into the fight like no time had passed.



Reasons not to have this:

1. The amount of time spent waiting for armour to be changed is more of a pain in the ass than a contribution to immersion. It spoils the gaming experience to the point that sometimes I log on and the first thing I have to do is take off my armour and rest my hit points back. I think, god I can't be bothered with this and I log off.

2. There are so many OOC reasons to take armour off and put it back on again. Why should armour wearing character's players be baned with minutes of watching a timer for frequent OOC reasons:
(a) Item Sprite bug,
(b) Hit point loss on log in (Especially after crashes! GAH RAGE!)
(c) accidental clicking on a quickslot

3. I know you can hit the enter key and still use normal IC chat but the inability to send tells or click on anything else in the UI whilst this equipping is going on it so infuriating.

4. My health. As you can see, being in a permenant state of rage about this is affecting my health. Its so annoying, I log on and hate it. Perhaps if this was not in place I would not be instantly angry all the time and would enjoy all the other new things on the server instead of just being synical and angry all the time.

5. Roleplay, people who don't roleplay will still not roleplay, you can't make a person roleplay by putting timers on things. Infact from a 3rd person view, the armour still seems to just pop on or off. The other player just stands there doing nothing for some time and then just bursts off to catch up lost time. What it has done is affect those who do roleplay.
I used to take Juggra's armour off all the time and run around in a potatoe sack. It was part of his persona. That's gone now. I just keep the armour on all the time now because of the equipping timer. When I do change armour now I never roleplay it because I see the timer and instead of thinking, Oh I should roleplay changing out of my armour and resting and putting it back on somehow I just think. Oh, there is that bloody timer again. 19.. 18... 17... tick tick tick when will this end. Timer Stress = I'm never roleplaying armour changes again.




Everyone is entitled to a point of view. I'm sure there are some perverted masochists out there who love these timers. Personally I loved this server because it encouraged roleplay and didn't enforce it. I am one of those people who reject what is forced upon me and I find myself in that situation with these timers in place. The server is a very very different place because of them. I even find myself looking upon RPOTM as hypocritical now when before I loved the concept and to me it was a fundemental backbone of the ethos of the server.

Reward RP but do not punish those who are not as good at it.

Thsi server is not full of bad RPers, infact it is the best server for Roleplay I have ever played on. This control measure did not need to be put in place. There was no population of awful RPers that needed reigning in.

[Kaeldorn]

I disagree with you on many points, and there are several more reasons for its implementation (already mentioned), and your first reason given is pretty much ridiculous.

As far as the health loss goes; yes it's annoying. I quite frequently just walk around without full hp because of it. That's an issue with that sytem though, and not with the equip timers.

Accidentally clicking a quickslot that you can just bash out of by pressing escape for a short dex penalty (when you're not in combat anyway) is barely a problem at all. Accidentally clicking potion slots and such is significantly worse.

You can still type private messages to people using /r , or typing out /tell "[character name]" [message].
Granted, it takes a bit more time, but not that much.

If you get health and rage problems over this, go see a shrink. Seriously, if you are infuriated that easily, you have issues.

[Phantom Lamb]

Yes, please folks, if you want us to take your suggestions seriously, tone down the drama. Thanks

[Azulfae]

I agree, I do have issues. (Some very real ones lately)

And I am a Drama.

More importantly though is that when I first started playing on this server I was hooked by an awsome first impression.

If I'd logged on for the first time ever and then bought my first suit of armour. The moment I saw a timer for putting my armour on there would have been this negative vibe there in the back of my mind and I'd have wanted immediately to try out another server.

Normal people don't like to be negative, especially to a server's staff for fear of coming across as disrespectful or unappreciative of the work put into the server. Of course, I still think this is the best server in the whole of NWN2 and what you guys have created is 100 times better than the original game.

If a server implements something... uh, something like this armour timer, then maybe a few people will like it and say, bravo what a great idea, then a few more who like kissing up to the hand that feeds will also go, "Oh yes I leeerve your new idea." Even though they don't or are impartial to it.

Then all the people who hate it just stop playing and leave.

I am the dramatic guy with issues who stays out of principle and fears not the being negative. For my constructive contribution I will always be hated but I think you should know, this timer idea is horrible and just not the sort of thing you put in a computer game if you want people to play it.

[The point has been made. Don't worry i'll leave it alone now. But even if I say nothing for months I still hate these timers forever.]

[Phantom Lamb]

Your feedback is welcome. No one is going to force you to like our system. But the approach you are taking, and how you are phrasing your disapproval, is simply "over the top."

Just tone it down. Express it nicely. Don't make mountains out of molehills.

Folks don't want to read things like this, and I'll come up with a solution if it continues.

[Azulfae]

How about a Banner?

[Product of Void]

I see good and bad to the timer. It does force the use of still spell feat for casters or for tanks to rp removing armor. I do not remeber if the heavier the armor the longer it takes. Been awhile, though if it takes the same time to put on say a pair of pants as full plate kinda funky.

The timer removes the get naked, buff, and equip armor mages who want to melee in plate. Still can do it but have to deal with loosing some of that time the buff would be working.

I did have an issue with it, while it would say 20 seconds due to lag or something else I once had to wait 1-2 minutes to have it change. Could be me, or something else in the script *shrug*

[Urithrand]

I've yet to find an issue with the timer. It forces me to find more appropriate and safe places to rest and ensures I don't do it where someone might catch me with my pants down so to speak. It's new, and it's taking a little getting used to, but it will soon seem like old hat, and people will forget ever having the luxiury of just popping their armour on and off in an instant. It gives the game just another little realistic feel to it, and I for one am pro-timer.

If you're really that pissed, play someone in light armour. Then you don't need to take it off to rest. Or a mage of course.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Yeah, you dont need to play someone as slow as a gold dwarf in shackles! All my PCs have a positive dexterity score, if your still in love with your strength score you could play a druid or a wood elf (+STR ^^). My opinion? Cleric of Mask

[Azulfae]

I have non heavy armour wearing PC's.

Good point frm POV though on the mages who like to wear heavy plate, buff, equip and then go off fighting. At least now they have to take still spell and be a proper battle mage.

[Kaeldorn]

That was actually one of the primary reasons for implementing the timer. As well as the requirement changes to the Eldritch Knight.

[grant]

If i remember correctly...in PnP it takes 4 turns to put on a Fullplate which is 12 seconds. <snip>

Yes, but that time only comes into effect if there are things happening around you that requires everyone to be on a turn schedule. No DM pulls out a stop watch while your in camp, at a shop, or in an inn and everything is safe and says, sit still, do not look at you character sheet, inventory, or examine any other characters... just talk. This is exactly what the armor rules are doing now.

Besides, in the intrest of being fair, Mages and Clerics should have enhanced resting rules for spell preperation as well. How long does it take to memorize spells now in PNP now and they are not allowed the luxury of talking at that time either are they?

If real life dressing times are to be simulated for <no reason I understand>, then the fantacy realism for spell casters should also be.

[Kaeldorn]

From the table I remember, equipping a full plate takes 2 minutes and can't be done on your own.

Though that'd be a bit too much restriction

Fantasy realism wasn't the reason for implementation. It was:
- Making people think twice about resting in the wild
- Making strip - buff - equip routines detrimental in time intensive situations, and annoying in others
- Avoid people popping their plate on instantly if any apparent RP threat arises. If you're caught with your pants down, tough cookies. Sometimes you have to roll with what you have at your disposal at that moment.

[TheBlankStare]

Yes, this is from earlier in this very thread. . .

According to the handy dandy DnD 3.5 SRD . . . Biohazard is sort of right. It does take 4 turns but a turn is actually ten rounds. That's four minutes. A nice abstraction of reality to be sure. :P I went to a Rennisance Festival once and had them put some plate type armor on me an it took nearly 30 minutes and that was with the help of experienced. . . helpers.

We've actually got it really good in Sundren!

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/...oAndOutOfArmor