Exigo Trade Post Demons

[Lollercide]

While I awesomely respect the time and effort put into the lightshow, demon spawns, and how they even call out players in the name of Bane.. There's a few things that unsettle me and instead of demanding Phantom Lamb to resurrect me. I figured I'd do something productive and ask/suggest a few adjustments.

To be blunt, I don't like the idea of high level spawns popping into the middle of a non-hostile zone, without warning. While this is honestly RP justifiable, I think that there needs to be some OOC consideration to this.

I believe that this situation should fall close to Sundren's current CvC rules. That is, other PCs can create these mobs and kill other players with them without warning or notice -- While they're in the middle of typing out RP. Especially when the PCs make sure there is a mass gathering before spawning them, to ensure players are caught off guard and killed.

The quest itself, the lightshow, and the script are beautifully done. I just don't like the idea of taking a death penalty for getting caught off-guard by another PC spawning these mobs while I'm RPing.

Edit: I forgot to add an actual suggestion after simply complaining. I suggest that they spawn in a currently unfrequented PC area, while a global message is announced.

For example; "A brilliant flash originating from the crossroads lights the sky, shortly followed by waves of fire and a deep booming voice praising the name of The Black Lord" -- And then have the demons spawn at the crossroads, maybe with some civilian NPCs for them to kill. With that, PCs will understand the threat of Bane, and have a valid opportunity to either combat it, avoid it, or bow and join them.

[Urithrand]

This has been considered OOC to some extensive degree by the Devs and DMs already. It is supposed to be scary, and it is supposed to be a nightmare scene. The spawns only last a short time, and they are scaled to the levels of each individual person fighting them. Having the message that you suggested is neither compelling nor scary for the PCs.

Nobody RPs their characters afraid of anything. Ever (with a few small exceptions). The only thing people actively try to avoid (as you will notice when people quite willingly walk over a trap because they know it won't kill their PC, as Sean and I proved the other day) is death and the exp hit. As such, this is what they have to face in any encounter which is designed to scare them. As I said, the spawns disappear shortly after they are summoned. Doing this in an unpopulated area completely misses the point of the excersise =P

[Maevan2]

And you can always go to an inn to RP. I doubt we will open hell gates there any time soon

[me_less]

Just for quick context, I was there for the first spawning and it truly was impressive and scary. (good job guys *smile*) I was conveniently hidden at the time and chose to do so because I truly did not know what I was up against. (Even Vader ended up running. LOL) I have yet to die in such an event.

Having said that, here is my recommendation. I can see the point of the staff to instill a little horror in everyone to make the environment a little more "real" and dynamic. My impression though is that there may not be enough lead time between the the demon's announcement and the attack. A low level character only lasts a round or two against the spawns so if s/he was caught in the middle typing, they're as good as dead. If a person is in the middle of RP, a little more lead time will allow them to close it out and react to the spawning. Besides, seeing the spawns in all their glory with their threats before actual combat begins is more intimidating and "cool" in an RP setting.

And here ends my recommendation . Take it for what its worth.

[Lollercide]

Having said that, here is my recommendation. I can see the point of the staff to instill a little horror in everyone to make the environment a little more "real" and dynamic. My impression though is that there may not be enough lead time between the the demon's announcement and the attack. A low level character only lasts a round or two against the spawns so if s/he was caught in the middle typing, they're as good as dead. If a person is in the middle of RP, a little more lead time will allow them to close it out and react to the spawning. Besides, seeing the spawns in all their glory with their threats before actual combat begins is more intimidating and "cool" in an RP setting.

That seems hit my problem on the head. I understand the importance of bringing fear back into PCs, but I don't like the idea of catching low level players OOCly offguard and essentially ganking them to do it.

It's not the high level PCs that are at risk, because as witnessed, they are capable of both enduring the attacks and running away.

However, the low level PCs are taken out within a round (mine was) and with little to no way of defending themselves. They must be lucky to catch it on time, drop any and all RP they might have been typing, and run -- Or lose XP.

Edit: Ironically, Zack is probably the only PC that has literally shit himself in fear.

[sharringtonm]

Uh, I was there watching, and disagree with your statement of facts completely

My impression though is that there may not be enough lead time between the the demon's announcement and the attack.

From the moment the light show starts (lightning blasts, gusts of light, giant portals, earth explosions, and a HUGE flame) you are given exactly 38 seconds before the firrst spawn appears, which doesn't do anything for another 4 seconds
thats 42 seconds. Game terms? Thats 7 rounds. No other encounter on Sundren that spawns that close gives you 7 rounds. In 7 rounds you can WALK thru the area transition. In 7 rounds you can walk outside the area of effect. In 7 rounds you can RUN thru 2 different areas. In 7 rounds you can buff 7 times and equip full plate and your most devestating weapon. In 7 rounds you can hit the stealth button. (The spawns are not set to atttack you if your hidden from them, just make sure your skill ranks are high enough)

I've seen this go down twice now. You know what I see each time? Everyone but Zack stands there going "oohh ... ahhh" and genereally enjoying standing in the middle of a fire and lightning whirlwind storm.

Zack gets props cause he saw the storm and within 10 seconds bailed out to a safe distance. Thats a appropriate IC response. I'd love for you to explain to the server how its IC for you to stand in the middle of a lightning and firestorm staring at a portal?

Summary: I refute the idea there is not enough warning.

A low level character only lasts a round or two against the spawns

I watched this and got information from others on this. The only time anyone dies is when one of the HIGH level characters do the old run by trick to shake a pursuer off onto another PC. I saw Vader sick his spawn on Vannie like that. The spawns are designed with a PCs level in mind, each person getting a spawn that will challenge them but not pwnage them.
If you want to lay blame for PC's dying, lay it on your fellow players for using mechanics to sacrafice you so they can get away. (which was hilarious when vader did it)


Summary: PC's don't die from this except when another PC gets them killed.

Besides, seeing the spawns in all their glory with their threats before actual combat begins is more intimidating and "cool" in an RP setting

It would be cool wouldn't it? Can you promise that no player, ever, will use this lead time to get in a first strike? The idea of this is a surprise attack on the PCs.
You cannot promise this. Players will do anything to win, regardless of promises. Thus, you get a few 4 seconds from them spouting their words to battle beginning.

I don't like the idea of high level spawns popping into the middle of a non-hostile zone, without warning.

First, the spawns are based on the levels of the PCs present not on a predetermined level.
Second, how many times have you been witness to the fact that NO zone is a safe zone? You and Tamryn specifclly were slaughtered by Banites right outside the temple while all your fellow paladins watched from the windows and took bets.
Third, you assume too much. You assume this can only happen there. Why do you think it happens at that same spot? Because thats where the greatest congregation of players is at.
Fourth, no warning? See above.
High level? Your were attacked by Coterie in the city. Whats higher level then a coterie?

The quest itself, the lightshow, and the script are beautifully done. I just don't like the idea of taking a death penalty for getting caught off-guard by another PC spawning these mobs while I'm RPing.

So if your assasinated by another PC via melee you'll cry foul about your XP loss too? There both assassination attempts, but at least the banite one doesn't try as hard to kill you as say ... a wail of the banshee.

I believe that this situation should fall close to Sundren's current CvC rules. That is, other PCs can create these mobs and kill other players with them without warning or notice

Again, the huge explosion/firestorm/portal isn't warning enough for you?

And this is NOT CvC. I'll be happy to demonstrate to anyone what CvC is, but I'm keeping your weapons after I disarm them.

I have seen the "good guys" PC's manhandle and torment the bad guys in the middle of Exigo and other places secure in their immortality becuase they are in that area and they are the good guys, no matter how evil their actions currently are. And now that the bad guys have a way of "pushing back" you get upset? Why aren't you crying foul over the number of times Zack has been beaten down and dragged out of the exigo by the 'good guys'?



Lastly, and I say this with all due respect to every person that is offering suggestions here.
This is the face of Sundren. The DMs all know why this is happening. We are not randomly trying to kill folks.

[Lollercide]

After debunking it like that, I can't honestly say I have the intelligence required to rightfully argue.

I stand corrected and approving of this now. It sucks to lose XP, but it always does. Guess it's kind of the point.

[sharringtonm]

Just be glad its once per PC only. Its the herald that a PC has joined the Black Hand.

Its not a reusable feature.

EDIT: This SHOULD scream "NEW BANITE" IC to all the players, thus ramping up the anti Banite measures in reponse. If the Victims of this event don't do anything, they've wasted a hell of a good RP session.

Where are all the Role Play posts on the forum about this? I've seen only Fezzik's brief mention of it. Is this not worthy enough for Yashia to wake up in the middle of the night over? Or Nocte to summon demons to investigate it? Or Zack to start praying to Bane for salvation, like he said he would?

[Lollercide]

Look, asshole. Stop giving us good ideas on how to take advantage of the situation and develop our characters with RP while turning the tables on what was once a negative subject to something good.

Geeze. The nerve.

(( Thanks Sean. ))

[Demathos]

Hehe, sorry Zack. Pyras was the one targetted, and I was just thinking "Well, to hell with this..." and turned Ethereal. Red Wizards don't take the stand-and-fight approach for the sake of protecting a campfire, so uh, sorry about that.

And Sean, I agree with you when you say people should be more scared, in most cases. Pyras is a Red Wizard who would realistically be surrounded by demons and portals very frequently, and able to comprehend scenarios pertaining to such things, though most other people wouldn't have had the same upbringing. I would imagine that most people should panic from the start, but when I was the one attacked, I noticed that most people weren't even IC about it. They all tried to understand why it was happening by using OOC game mechanics.

I like the idea, but I'm not sure it's having the right effect. I wouldn't even mind more people dying from it.

[sharringtonm]

You know how long I've been waiting for that? Kangleton used to call me asshole all the time, which is good for my ego, but he left and came back a wussy.

Thank you lollercide, it does my heart good to see I'm getting across my "Unlimited asshole power" to at least one person.

[Redjack]

Wish I had been there for all the excitement.
I think there should be more demon spawns!
How did I miss this great event.
Give us more Demons in all the wrong places.
I love the excitement of running for my life.

[Demathos]

Or perhaps now, I'm such an asshole, that I can't help but be in agreement with all other assholes in the vacinity?

[sharringtonm]

At 17, you're barely a puckered belly button.

[Maevan2]

*nods all the time while readon Sean's post. Especially while reading this*

I've seen this go down twice now. You know what I see each time? Everyone but Zack stands there going "oohh ... ahhh" and genereally enjoying standing in the middle of a fire and lightning whirlwind storm.

Players usually don't take IC warning serious. Not when they see monsters in the distance that can kill them within seconds, not when a gate to hell opens next to them and the poor guy that was sitting there is torn to pieces. People don't retreat when they are already half dead (which is a problem in D&D: you can still fight perfectly with just 1 HP left) because they halucinate that are meant to - that they have to god given right - to defeat these monsters.

Sundren is not a PnP campaing that was meant to be played through by you. Not every place and every encounter are meant to be defeated by you. And you don't have to defeat them to see the rest of the story.

Your characters might be braver than you are in RL and maybe he is one the Sundrens heroes. But there is still a difference between being brave and being stupid.

Retreat, get some clean pants and fight another day. Running away is not a shame if you win in the end.