Character level variance in quests

[nickbeat]

I've been in a number of DM run quests and have noticed some difficulty arise when a group contains a mix of very high level characters along with low level ones.

• The challenges are too easy for the high levels, or too hard for the lows.
• One player's character is forced to act as a babysitter to the others.
• weaker characters die easily against challenges that are trivial for the higher levels.

This is much more likely to happen because the DMs hand out XP manually, and also DMs are a heck of a lot more fun thatn AI monsters. Players would be far less likely to do this when simply question in the viridale without a DM.

Would DMs prefer that groups keep close to the same level to make their life easier? Perhaps we could have an informal rule that characters must be within 3 levels of each other?

This makes sense for RP reasons. Low level characters would not normally be tagging along with a bunch of elites running Schild Mountain, nor would a level 16 character bother with the affairs of a rag tag group of level 5s scouring the sewers for lizards.

In the end, I would like to see an equal number of low level DM events/quests along with high level ones.

What does everyone think?

[CloakandDagger22]

The problem is we all live in this minute little world on the server, not to say that the server is too small, but there is a limit to the players, so there is interaction with higher levels and lower levels, the player needs to be smart enough to know the DMs aren't going to cater to their level all the time, there needs to be a higher sense of fear so that lower levels will simply be more likely to say:

no thanks, you can handle that, i'll be dead in 2 seconds if I come with you, GOOD LUCK!

I personally blame players more then DMs, and if u ARE low levels, stay in the back and fight from a distance (if you MUST be there)

[Neven]

This makes sense for RP reasons. Low level characters would not normally be tagging along with a bunch of elites running Schild Mountain, nor would a level 16 character bother with the affairs of a rag tag group of level 5s scouring the sewers for lizards.

I would think it's more of a character-to-character thing, than a level-to-level thing. Not every level 7470274 character is going to think running around in the sewers killing rats is a waste of their skills.

In the end, I would like to see an equal number of low level DM events/quests along with high level ones.

I do agree with this, however. It'd be nice to feel as though your presence mattered somewhat during the course of a quest.

I'm currently in the way of thinking, "fine as is." Though.

[nickbeat]

I don't wish to 'blame' DMs at all, but ask how players can help them best to manage an event to go smoothly.

I agree that some players should know better than to go along with a dangerous mission, but it really is hard to pass up just because of the coolness factor. The same can be said for higher level characters that might want to join a lower level group.

[Jaeram]

I think you guys are right, I mean if you think of the really high level characters as having achieved a status in the land, i.e. sure a long time ago he was killing rats but we just watched him slaughter giants the other day... that guy knows that the city doesn't need him to help with the rat problem, someone else can take care of that. I think what is missing is an element of difficulty level. I know that DM's won't want to turn people away from an event or lead on to what people might encounter, but if there's a bunch of level 9's standing around the camp fire and the DM starts up an event for them and two level 4's come by, it might be nice to have a hint, hey this is 'recommended' level 9 ish if you come you might end up cowering in the corner even though your fighter is supposed to be macho, everything he cons says impossible and you don't want him to die.

Honestly, I wouldn't be offended by this at all (I play a lot of low level characters too) because I know I've been in situations where i was like awesome for the first time in weeks I'll be getting some exp (since I don't fight very much) and then joe too much lower/higher than me decides let's go squash this and then no exp. I would just say, that's cool, have fun guys, because I know that when DM's are hosting events for people my level I won't have to deal with the very same problems, it'll be people my level, and it'll be a challenge. If you have people higher than you and the event is made for a mid/low level group, the whole thing could taste a little stale if that high guy is doing all the work and you feel like your giving those ogres paper cuts while big joe tank'n spank is dishing out 100's. lol. Just my opinion. (To the dwarf who may recognize himself as big joe tank'n spank, he was actually not too high of a level, but I can't get over who good he was in that ogre cave, and was very glad to have him there with me, I think you all still get the picture though, I think it can upset the challenge of the event).

Edit: To go along with Nick's above post : I also do not blame DM's at all, I just think it would be nice if one player in the group (whoever is taking up the flag of ring leader maybe) got a little tip and could pass the tip around if someone too low or high decides they might want to go, so that the player can decide if attendance is appropriate.

[Phantom Lamb]

These are good thoughts Nick. In the past, I've set level caps, both high and low, to keep folks relatively near each other. Additionally, I've kept group limits to about five players. It really depends on the type of event, but they are always good to consider.

I'd say on the player side, don't worry about it at all. DMs will judge and let you know one way or the other. IC, you may want to assess a situation and decide if you have the strength to handle certain monsters, and excuse yourself.

[Machiavelli]

Significant variation in levels and large groups can both be troublesome. I for one don't use any hard and fast rules about these things though.

[sharringtonm]

Here's my suggestion to both DM's and players.

Turn Off the searchable function. If a player looks and sees 3 DMs on, and then sees an area with a ton of people in it, he's gonna put 2 and 2 together and crash your event.

You could have your 3 level 5 PCs doing something and Hano logs in, sees where they are at and boom.. you got a level 15 paladin breezing thru your event.

[Lollercide]

You could have your 3 level 5 PCs doing something and Hano logs in, sees where they are at and boom.. you got a level 15 paladin breezing thru your event.

That bastard Paladin and his desire to RP. We'll show him... WE'LL SHOW HIM!

On a more serious note, I try to keep to myself when I'm with lower levels fighting low level mobs. I'll attack and kill one then spend a large amount of time RPing how I attacked/killed/recovered from it, but leave the majority to them.

Up until I see them getting overwhelmed that is. Also - I've been known to take a few level drains so I wouldn't spoil the fun/challenge.

[Kangleton]

The benefit of having Mass Cure spells and half a dozen amazing buffs for people (Stoneskin, Barkskin, Flame Weapon, etc.) is that I can follow along, make people safe, and not intrude in terrible and bothersome ways.

I have immunity to this problem, and therefore consider this case closed.

[Machiavelli]

Up until I see them getting overwhelmed that is. Also - I've been known to take a few level drains so I wouldn't spoil the fun/challenge.

Level drain. The great equaliser

[sharringtonm]

*Looks to LH* I want the ring back, sir. Too much talk about level drain. I'm game for it now.