Shadowdancers

[sparkeh]

So I know that the HIPS debated raged before and I'm not in any way trying to reopen that, in fact I kinda agree with it being moved.

But what was never discussed was the possibility of moving another SD feat to lv 1, kinda compensation? Currently SD is the only PrC that doesn't get anything at lv1 (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). Perhaps something like Darkvision could be bumped up to lv 1? Be nice that when you get the first lv of SD you can see into shadows and stuff.

Any opinions?

[Jaeram]

I believe the last time this was brought up, moving another ability to HiPS' spot, near the end of the HiPS debate was along the lines of - what do you mean you don't get anything, you get +d8 hp and +6 base skill points.

[Kangleton]

Yeah, but you could get that if you took a level in anything else, really. In a world where you are capped at 15th, every level counts, and it sucks not getting something neat after spending a potential 80 hours online, earning RP experience.

Whenever my character flashes bright blue and that Level Up sign apears, I get this nerdy surge of hapiness, knowing that something cool is coming the way of my character. If I got NOTHING, I'd be dissapointed.

But meh, I'm a sensitive person, and a level-whore. My opinion is discredited.

[KingLeper]

So a shadowdancer doesn't get HIPS at first lvl here?

[Kangleton]

Nope, as outlined in the Wiki, the class get's it at fourth level, I believe.

[sparkeh]

I believe the last time this was brought up, moving another ability to HiPS' spot, near the end of the HiPS debate was along the lines of - what do you mean you don't get anything, you get +d8 hp and +6 base skill points.

Really? Well if I took another lv of Rogue I could get +6hp and +8 skill. Doesn't seem that great.

Anyway I digress because I didn't really want to get into PGing arguments. I just think that if you qualify for a PrC you should get some nice thing related to the class. Its like 'So you're a Shadowdancer huh? What can you do as a Shadowdancer'....'Oh nothing'. Every other PrC does.

Bumping up something like Darkvision isnt going to break balance the way HIPS does...will it?

[Jaeram]

Ok, I tried to find the post but after about 15 minutes of searching I still couldn't find it. When I typed that though, and was thinking about the thread, it was supposed to be kind of a joke. If I remember correctly, I think it was kind of Saulus' way of saying 'tough'. I hope he'll chime in at some point and validate or invalidate my claim. Although one thing I was kind of trying to get across, was that, this seemed like something they had already talked about, I remember a lot of people pitching ideas to move this or that in it's place but the DM's didn't want to. I didn't want to see your topic get hit with a 'dead horse'. Also looking back at my post I seem to have forgotten to mention that I believe Saulus was the one who said the d8 hp and +6 skills thing, don't quote me though, since I can't find the topic to check again.

[sparkeh]

Cheers, I must have missed that discussion. The search box brings up nothing.

I'm kinda expecting the 'tough' answer, and the 'dead horse' would not be unexpected, but if you don't ask etc...

[Jaeram]

Yeah, I know what your getting at, hehe, I tried search too and got nothing. So I ended up searching all the topics back since I started playing here, lol, and couldn't find it, so I gave up.

[Phantom Lamb]

Try to step back from the issue and look at it from a different angle. Generally, the first level of any class should not give something so high-powered, especially in Sundren, where we let you do just about anything with your character. Why? Well, we'd see people taking one rank of Shadowdancer just to get it.

There are plenty of other classes where you don't get squat on every level. But, you still obtain the same amount of feats in the long run. Personally, I think there are other high-priority issues out there to which we can dedicate staff members' time.

[sparkeh]

Let me respond to those points:

Generally, the first level of any class should not give something so high-powered, especially in Sundren, where we let you do just about anything with your character. Why? Well, we'd see people taking one rank of Shadowdancer just to get it.

I stated that I agreed with HIPS not being level 1, its too powerful. Throwing a cookie with something like darkvision isn't.

There are plenty of other classes where you don't get squat on every level. But, you still obtain the same amount of feats in the long run.

Sure, but every PrC gives something at lv1 that gives your char a flavour of whatever PrC they just took. As I said before:

'So you're a Shadowdancer huh? What can you do as a Shadowdancer'....'Oh nothing'.

Personally, I think there are other high-priority issues out there to which we can dedicate staff members' time.

Sure, normal I would agree but its not like I suggested we completely rewrite the class. If people did want to see this and it was agreed by the big man, how much effort is it to swap the level that a feat is granted at?

[Phantom Lamb]

Thank you for your opinions, they are noted. No need for arguing back and forth from this point forward, thanks.

[Lollercide]

I'd like to state that HIPS is the reason 90% of Sundren takes Spot/Listen as skills. Without it you are completely useless against those who have it. I know this from Hano fighting Marrs/Samantha.

If they choose to use it, Hano can only sit there and wait to be killed. I believe that any class that gets it should consider this.. It's forcing other characters to take spot/listen skills in order to survive. Giving them an even bigger edge is very risky.

[The Ice Hag]

It was humorous watching you walk by Samantha at the rangers post when she was hidden in the room...several hundred times. But I agree with you.

[Kangleton]

For what it's worth, I agree that a PRC should entitle you to something at first level. It symbolizes the fact that you even took the PRC in the first place.

And yeah, I was laughing when Hano didn't spot Samantha. I didn't even KNOW she was hiding, and there was Hano completely oblivious. Some Paladin; can't even spot the evildoers.