Get yo evil on!

[CPBailey74]

Okay, many Paladin around, and only real thing you have to counter that is the Black Guard (but good also has Divine Champion, which I see more as BlackGuard's equal).

Big problem is there is no evil paladins and all. Granted, evil is usually not so organized as to have them (but to those that read the DragonLance series would know better), but at the same time just because they are evil does not mean they are stupid.
I would like to see an evil Paladin to counter all those goodly ones. Fine you can make a Cleric...that just does not measure out quite the same.

I would make it similiar to the Blackguard with but a few changes (like lay on hands for evil or some sort of divine powers). The Divine Champion is a lot like the Paladin as far as I can tell (not a real big fan on either so..), but anyway would be nice to be able to get one going from the start (T'would be only fair since you can choose a Pally from the start!).

[Kangleton]

Paladin is restricted to Lawful Good. No other alignment can take it, as per the rules of NWN, as well as D&D. Blackguards are the Anti-Paladin class, though you make a good point when you say that they aren't available at character creation, which can be problematic I suppose, for the evil people.

[Saulus]

Play a cleric. This is DnD.

[Jaeram]

Paladin is restricted to Lawful Good. No other alignment can take it

Damn you Kangleton you got to it before me.

Yeah, I'de say just make an evil cleric, in most cases I would probably say the right evil cleric build would be more powerful than the paladin of the same level, and better than a 'current' blackguard.

[CPBailey74]

I know this is to DND ruleset and I have made a Cleric. Just think they should have made the Black Guard to be a starter class. I know that as a Divine Champion alignment does not really matter and all, but ya gotta figure most things are geared towards the goodly classes on that aspect. Granted I have not played D&D for years since all my books were stolen, but they added 3 other classes on here, mostly wonderin why they can not add a Dark Paladin. I forget when I was playing around with char creation, but I think minimum time to get BlackGuard was like level 8 (I think, think I tried as fight and thief..fighter took longer to get hide and thief took longer to get base attack), just that there is a bit of a gap there.
Anyway, was not meaning that it had to be an evil Paladin per sae, just something along that line would be nice.

[Ithildin]

I know this is to DND ruleset and I have made a Cleric. Just think they should have made the Black Guard to be a starter class. I know that as a Divine Champion alignment does not really matter and all, but ya gotta figure most things are geared towards the goodly classes on that aspect. Granted I have not played D&D for years since all my books were stolen, but they added 3 other classes on here, mostly wonderin why they can not add a Dark Paladin. I forget when I was playing around with char creation, but I think minimum time to get BlackGuard was like level 8 (I think, think I tried as fight and thief..fighter took longer to get hide and thief took longer to get base attack), just that there is a bit of a gap there.
Anyway, was not meaning that it had to be an evil Paladin per sae, just something along that line would be nice.

have you tried as a fighter/rogue build? seems like you tried them both separately but why not mix them together if you want the class faster.

[rustediron]

Indeed, 1 level of rogue would get you +1d6 sneak attack as well as +4 hide.

[CPBailey74]

Nay, I have never been overly good at multi-classing. Going from a base class to a prestiege can be a challenge as it is at times! Mayhaps I shall try your suggestion. I have a Fighter that I made as a follower of Bane to be a Black Guard, so that might just be the route I need to go. Thanks for the suggestion!

[sharringtonm]

Hmm I think the classes your looking for are on Page 53 of the Unearthed Arcana Manual.

Variant Paladin Builds.

Freedom, Slaughter, and Tyranny.

If you read it, you'll notice the BG PRC is actually quite like the tyranny base class, and stronger in some ways as well.

[nickbeat]

My best character is a fighter/rogue/weaponmaster. Those rogue levels are good for a lot beyond just sneaks. Just being able to disarm traps has proven very helpful.

I know a cleric/rogue build out there that seems pretty interesting.

[CPBailey74]

I wish I had my books still. I had ALL the 1st edition and almost all the 2nd when they were stolen (and they were in MINT condition too!!!). So I really can not reference much other then what is in the NWN manuals, I have some PDF's that I downloaded (have like 34 manuals in PDF form) though most of them are sadly of little use. Looking at what I do have, you know what class I really miss...Psionics!! I miss them! Guess they kind of died out? Just noticed that was one of the PDF's I have. I would LOVE to see that class remade! While that would be another one of the rare classes (as I would see it), would still be good. I am guessing it was more of a pain then it was worth to incorp their spells and abilities into the games? No getting jealous, but I even found the original character sheets as well as the updated ones....Ooooo.

[Dark presence]

I hate paladins, personally. That class should not be alignment restricted at all. They should get rid of the blackguard and anti-paladin classes and make them paladin variants based on alignment or deity. Just like the ranger gets to choose specializing in ranged or melee, paladins should choose abilities based on deity and/or alignment. I doubt it will ever happen, not while Hasbro owns WOTC.

In any case, your best bet is probably favored soul/blackguard.

[Gairun]

I'm pretty sure a Fighter 2/Rogue 3 can take take his first Blackguard level at level 6. A human cleric with the Able Learner feat can also take this class at level 6 or 7 I believe.

[CPBailey74]

That is an idea that I like! Like you said though, it will doubtfully ever happen. Think a few of the classes (like Cleric as well) would be better served having the choice between good/neutral/evil as well, but at least with them can choose the spells, though their base abilities would be nice to have some alterations to.

[Bmur87]

Whats to stop you from making an evil divine champion, its not alignment restricted. Granted its alot more combat focused and you dont get any spells but its another take on an evil form of a paladin. I do agree on the rouge comments aswell, disarm is something I wish all my characters here on Sundren had!