Undead summons

[Landaren]

Today I was playing around with the Summoning spells. I don't really have much tact to be honest and I was going to compare the spells, Summon creature and Animate undead and create undead.

But honestly I can't. The summon creatures are powerful yet short.

While the undead summons are... long yet pathetic. With create undead it seems to get worse as it level, starting with the Ghoul, hes fast and has a nice stun. But he has 13 hit points and is level 2.

What is so scary about a ghoul with 13 hp and a 14 ac thats level 2? I think a child would fall off his bed and kill it by mistake.

The animate undead is even worse then this. Summoning a skeleton at at level 5, The skeleton comes into play as a level 1 creature. with 6 hit points 1 attack bonus and 14 ac. And the upgraded versions are not much better to be honest.

Based off what we have seen around Sundren the undead are feared. The bog zombies are dangerous, and most people would hate to see one ever in their life time.

I guess to make a long story short, could we possible see a little undead animation love?

[Dark presence]

I generally agree, summons are really poorly done in NWN2, and this is an Obsidian fault. I'd love to see them improved, but at the same time, with undead animation illegal, no one uses them.

[Landaren]

No one you know....

[rustediron]

I agree, my zombie summon has attack bonus: N/A
I mean, wtf? N/A?

The only thing I use it for is a moving target so I can use AoE spells around it. Though someone caught me doing that once... but that's another story

[Kangleton]

Yeah, if undead are gonna be feared and outlawed, and responsible for men and women shitting themselves world-wide, they should be able to withstand a teadybear used as a projectile weapon, which could tehcnically kill the zombie if it was a composite teadybear. Does that make sense!? NO!

[Jaeram]

I have to say, I love summoning creatures, but I think the summon undead spells are just a waste of space lol. I do a lot of build testing, and when I was testing an evil wayward sould build I decided to get the undead summons so he could role play having a vampire cohort, but it was pretty ridiculous, the level 20 wayward soul's most powerful undead (and for that matter any other class as well) Was a level 11 or 12 vampire? Seriously? I would almost be willing to fight the thing with my wizard Orrick, and he's level 6. This thing that like 60 hp, Orrick can have more than that if he puts his hat on. Something seems seriously wrong with it, and while I don't know how the Dreadmaster class will change things, I have a feeling if the evil summons were a bit cooler and not utterly pathetic we might actually HAVE a few more evil players. Obviously this isn't the DM's fault so I don't blame them, but really Obsidian dropped the ball. I mean look at the Baldurs Gate series, the individual skeletons you might summon at lower levels might not be much stronger than these ones, but you get like 3 of them so it's a different story. If you are looking for some strength in a summon, it doesn't even make sense to waste the room in your spell book for a little sissy vampire (which makes no sense, vampires should be strong summons) when you could just have like a 16HD elemental instead.

[rustediron]

Ah, I remember IWD2... I would just summon my 6 undead, hoping to get at least 2 bone golems, then hide in the next room.

Actually the ghoul is not SO bad, I mean, sure, it dies in a second, but it can sometimes disease or stun a few monsters before that, saving you a bit of trouble.

But yes, my undead becoming useful cohorts for a change would be very interesting.

[Silas North]

It's alive!... IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!....

*bleep* Now, it's dead again!!! Curse your full BAB.

Seriously though, you are right, particularly about the BG2 variant of the spell. Didn't it summon (at lvl 10, 11, whatever) a skeleton warrior with like 90% spell resistance, and a +1 greatsword?

[Jaeram]

It could summon all kind of stuff, depending on the level you cast it. Not to mention that summon spells had in BG2 had % and stuff, like 50% chance to summon 2 skeletons, 40% chance to summon 3 skeletons, and 10% chance to summon some other really strong undead. All of the summons had that, even the elemental ones would summon different versions like 50% 12HD, 40% 16HD, 10% Summon an Elemental Prince. On another similar topic, what's with the level 5 or 6 regular summon that summons a shadow mastiff? I don't really know if there's some trick to this shadow mastiff that I don't know about but it seems to me that the summon 1 level before it is a lot better, unless that thing has some ridiculous ability I don't know about I would have to say it sucks, it's on par with the undead summons. Though I have never cared to test that creature.

[Landaren]

So mostly everyone agrees, and a lot of the player base on the nwn2 forums agree...

Perhaps Saulus can make Sundren a shining example to the rest of the nwn2 community of what the undead summons should/could be, Fear the undead and shun them for they are evil! (and hopefully powerful)

[rustediron]

Well I think either beef them up, or make it so you can summon 2 or 3 of them at once.

[Landaren]

That would be good also

They may be weak but I can summon hordes of these pansies!

[Kangleton]

Hoards would also simulate the mass-fear that people seem to have of Necromancers. Nothing scarier than an army of your long deceased friends, using their bones as clubs as they beat and eat your children.

[Gairun]

I'm not sure the engine allows for multiple summons at one time. I could be wrong but I believe it is hard-coded.

[Landaren]

I spoke with a certain someone that said increasing the power of the undead that you summon is possible. And with that persons level of skill I'm sure it is an easy task