Low to Mid Boss Drops

[Scourn]

A easy way is opening up the toolset and makeing the item, then telling them in a tell what you want on it oocly. It tells you the total price in there for all the enchants on the item.

[Poor_Otis]

I can do that.

Good idea.

[Rhifox]

Yep, all prices that I use are the prices directly listed on the toolset.

[KociPazur]

Hello

I have high spot (proper rogue) so that's not the matter.
True that gear to buy at rogue dealer is nice.
The problem is it is so very expensive! It is not so easy for a rogue to raise a lot of cash - cannot really solo, not so easy get a group really and in a group there is a matter of sharing. How long is it going to take for me to save 30k or more? Loooooong. A fighter can go around killing bosses in Viridale and after considerably short time get money for gear ... using some of the loot as good gear too !! We need good loot generator ASAP I would say - chests and random kills should have chance of getting something better than meat or other rubbish. More dungeons with traps and hidden chests would be nice.
I wish more people would also rp better with rogues. You are a naive paladin or half-retarded half-orc warrior - act like one and please kindly let rogues cheat you steal your money and use as a puppet you are supposed to be - that's not only rogues but anybody else with superior Int and bluffy ways. I am joking but there is a point there too.
I think also disarming traps, opening locks etc should get xp like killing monsters. And maybe we could have areas were rogues (and mages) can have more fun.
I have lvl 8 rogue that can at the moment only solo Spittle Goblins ... and even that is not easy.

Sorry for chaotic post... Hope it made some sense.
Cheers

[valenator]

I have lvl 8 rogue that can at the moment only solo Spittle Goblins ... and even that is not easy.

Rogues aren't exactly a solo-type class, are they? (rhetorical question) You actually agreed with this sentiment at the start of your post, but you followed up with the above as though it were a point concerning combat balance.

The thing is, Fighter-type characters are gear-dependent characters. They require good gear to maintain effectiveness over time, and their effectiveness diminishes the higher level they get.

A wizard, on the other hand, starts out extraordinarily weak, but its effectiveness improves dramatically as it ascends in levels. From first level onward, wizards have spells which replicate the effects of beneficial equipment, and wizards receive spells at higher levels that exceed the benefits they get from other possible equipment.

A rogue is very much a support character, relying on flanking for combat effectiveness and capable of disarming traps it can likely evade, given the feat and high Reflex save score. The Stealth function allows the rogue to act as an effective scout. While several role play avenues exist for rogues, the class itself has been balanced to maximize its efficiency in a group setting, since 1v1-rogue hasn't been noticed-type ideal situations don't crop up too much in a PvE scenario.

We need good loot generator ASAP I would say...

Sundren's loot generator is very unique and sophisticated, and the devs continuously evaluate and rebalance it.

[KociPazur]

Treating a rogue or mage as a supporting character is wrong! And of course a rogue going solo is perfectly good - what are you talking about, sorry? An assasing can work alone, a thief can work alone ... more even they work alone unless it is some bigger project needing OTHER ROGUES ... more seldom a rogue may need assistance of a mage for example but rather taking a scroll he can use than taking a mage as stealth as parrot that just learned some new swear words. It cannot be a berserk grinding run - obviously ... more even it doesn't have to be fighting - stealth walk with traps hidden and locked doors, riddles, mazes and secrets etc would be the choice of pen&paper game.
Why would a rogue be just fighter's assistant? And you said fighters need gear more - not true.

[KociPazur]

One more thing ... Since Sundren is one of best RP servers we should not let NWN engine's limits limit us - as a computer multiplayer Role Playing game it will be unfortunatelly pretty much hack'n'slash otherwise with a little bit of small talk in the rest area and most "RP" limited to getting into a party to go grind. I enjoy very much going solo as a rogue. My most chars before (pen&paper and NWN1 & 2) were wizards or rogues and each had personality and ambition NOT to be "support".

[lordmaple]

Treating a rogue or mage as a supporting character is wrong! And of course a rogue going solo is perfectly good - what are you talking about, sorry? An assasing can work alone, a thief can work alone ... more even they work alone unless it is some bigger project needing OTHER ROGUES ... more seldom a rogue may need assistance of a mage for example but rather taking a scroll he can use than taking a mage as stealth as parrot that just learned some new swear words. It cannot be a berserk grinding run - obviously ... more even it doesn't have to be fighting - stealth walk with traps hidden and locked doors, riddles, mazes and secrets etc would be the choice of pen&paper game.
Why would a rogue be just fighter's assistant? And you said fighters need gear more - not true.

Ok...where do I start? I was going to quote all the sentences in that paragraph, and counter them, but I decided...*meh*, lets go for the general jugular vein.

*cough* A rogue is not a solo character in a combat situation involving more than one person. Ever. An assassin can take down one person, one on one, but most likely they will need to get the advantage of surprise and jump the person, hopefully incapacitating or crippling them with the *first few strikes*. Otherwise, that assassination attempt has failed, and they *run like the wind*. If they stay and fight for a prolonged period of time, they are probably more along the lines of a "Thug" or "Bandit" which is probably closer to a Rogue/Fighter and not a pure rogue.

For the record, I've never seen a single bandit alone,or a single thug alone. I'm not just talking in Sundren- I'm talking in almost all of my role playing experience even beyond DnD. My general experience is that they usually roll in a pack of at least two or three people, in which case you are both *actually playing support*. One plays the *support role* of the *distraction* while the other person plays the *support role* of the *backstabber/flanker*.

The rogue is a support role- and there is no shame in playing a support role. Being a support role means that you become *stronger* as more people join the party. Thats not so bad.

Rogues can work solo, but it usually involves "roguelike" work. In this role they are not playing support, because the TASK (keep this in mind, thats an important word!) is to "sneak around, unlock a door, or get information". In combat, when you are fighting an enemy, the TASK is to *kill* that enemy. The fighter, barbarian, ranger, and paladin classes are just the best at doing that. So in that role, they don't play support. But...say a rogue is disarming an extremely complex trap or locking mechanism. Guess who is support then? The fighter, because he is holding watch.

The mage is *also* a support role in combat- without any question. Even extremely powerful Necromancers generally have *hordes* of underlings to provide as sandbags between themselves and the enemy. If you jump any mage, you will see them crumple like a stack of cards. Trust me, I've seen it happen to three of the most powerful mages on this server (and they were together), and I won't name names, but you can all guess who it was Area of effect spells aren't very useful when you cast them at your feet.

If you feel you have to be Tu Pac and scream f*ck the world, you should probably be a barbarian.

Finally: Sundren is a group-oriented server. Solo missions aren't necessarily excluded completely, but they usually don't involve attacking a pack of goblins. A ranger on patrol is a solo mission- but most rangers won't charge headlong into a pack of goblins- no matter how weak the goblins are. In "PnP" as you call it, most rangers are smarter than that - how do you think they got that level in the first place? Even a "weak" goblin can get lucky sometimes and plant an arrow in your eye. Rangers will record the goblin's movements, maybe make a few observations on the population, and if a few wander away from the pack, well, they may not come back.

I could go on and on, but I'm going to stop here.

[valenator]

Everything in his last two posts.

You obviously didn't take the time to read my post thoroughly, or perhaps English isn't your first language and you weren't able to understand the post in its entirety. In either case, I'm dismissing your argument from my own standpoint as it fails to address the actual content of my post.

[Infernal_Havok]

I play a rogue just fine.. never have money problems that I couldn't fix by picking a few pockets and taking what I want. Of course there are rules for Pick pocketing and they should be followed and you have to be absolutely prepared for the consequences if your caught.

You pick the wrong persons' pocket your going to either be going to Jail for a long time, pay a fine that was 500 times more than you took, or in case for you low wisdom rogues... *Picks the Pocket a Black Guard PC*... your gonna get sent right to the FEN. You have to think like a thief and select oppotunities and marks.

And As Lordmaple posts. ROGUES are not Solo'ers they were never meant to be unless for really really specific class oriented missions or events. In general, PVE on most PW's is upfront, visceral combat.. rogues do not excell in upfront combat thats why they have a butt load of skills and stealth abilities.

If you want a solo'er that is sneaky try Ranger/Assassin and you might have a chance in a dungeon by yourself, thats if, you see combat as a major way for your playstyle to gain progress.

[KociPazur]

First - you are right here - English is not my first language - it's my fifth ... but your comment was really low :P ... still I think that my English is good enough for this forum.

When I said "solo" I never meant fighting too much AND I PUT PRESSURE ON THAT! Stealth mission in a dungeon full of traps ... sneaking past guards etc. - that's what I wanted. Maybe my English was not good enough ... maybe your reading - what I asked for was xp for rogues for traps and locks and more opportunity to use rogue's skills.
I also asked for loot in the chests - that's what I meant by loot generator.

You mentioned surprise attacks on single opponents - exactly what I want - but we don't really have single opponents on the server ...

You guys use arguments like "group orientated server" or talk about limitations of the game engine that makes a rogue weak. Why? Sundren is about RP. And I repeat again - in many cases RP is limited to finding a group to go grind - that's what I see.

Another thing is that you may stop me from ever posting again in that forum - instead of discussion what I would expect I get attacks ... some of them more personal than making a point (the language one for example). I love the server - don't get me wrong - but that's why I come up with suggestions. You don't agree - fine - say it ... but no need for all that ...

[Sammael]

The mage is *also* a support role in combat- without any question. Even extremely powerful Necromancers generally have *hordes* of underlings to provide as sandbags between themselves and the enemy. If you jump any mage, you will see them crumple like a stack of cards. Trust me, I've seen it happen to three of the most powerful mages on this server (and they were together), and I won't name names, but you can all guess who it was Area of effect spells aren't very useful when you cast them at your feet.

Rubbish. Given the correct spell choices and time to buff, a mage can solo any one enemy or group of enemies more effectively than any other character; this is especially true of red wizards. Asking them to perform at the same standard for a prolonged length of time, of course, and they'll fall to bits. But, with all the buffs and tricks available to a mage to avoid damage, and the sort of mass damage they are capable of putting out, there's no reason they should be such a pushover as you indicate unless they choose to be.

[KociPazur]

Well ... just to add something to Sammael's post:
I agree - a mage if prepared well can perform MUCH better than other classes in combat ... especially with many enemies thanks to spells hurting a lot of them at same time and with protection of defensive spells.
But also from RP reason a mages pride and confidence in his power definitely doesn't make him a "support" character. Rather than that he will surround himself with inferior (in his understanding) supporting characters like rogues or fighters etc.

Again - if it looked like I am against groups - NO - and I enjoy very much to interact with others - that's why I play multiplayer! But what I do not like is shallow RP and translating everything to game mechanics!

[GodBeastX]

Everything is a support class in D&D. Who doesn't become more effective with more people in the party?

Fighter - More people means others can heal him and keep him alive in the front lines
Mage - Means he's not the one getting woffle pwnt while he's casting spells
Rogue - Means he can sneak attack your dumbass
Bard - Song x N people in party
Cleric - Depends on what role they decide to take on that day

The reason people don't think Fighter is a support role is because it's the class that actually requires absolutely no brain power to play. You take feats to make your weapon hit more and you take less damage. Then you attack... ... ... heal... ... ... ... heal... ... ... ... heal... ... ...

Other classes are more hands on which means you gotta put effort forth to be effective in combat. I'd say the hardest class to do this with is 100% Rogue. Classes like shadow dancer or assassin make rogue easy mode... every 6 seconds, you HiPS then you stab em in the back.

Anyway, none of the above has to do with mid level boss drops, so my homie has some words for yall:

[GodBeastX]

Hello

I have high spot (proper rogue) so that's not the matter.
True that gear to buy at rogue dealer is nice.
The problem is it is so very expensive! It is not so easy for a rogue to raise a lot of cash - cannot really solo, not so easy get a group really and in a group there is a matter of sharing. How long is it going to take for me to save 30k or more? Loooooong. A fighter can go around killing bosses in Viridale and after considerably short time get money for gear ... using some of the loot as good gear too !! We need good loot generator ASAP I would say - chests and random kills should have chance of getting something better than meat or other rubbish. More dungeons with traps and hidden chests would be nice.
I wish more people would also rp better with rogues. You are a naive paladin or half-retarded half-orc warrior - act like one and please kindly let rogues cheat you steal your money and use as a puppet you are supposed to be - that's not only rogues but anybody else with superior Int and bluffy ways. I am joking but there is a point there too.
I think also disarming traps, opening locks etc should get xp like killing monsters. And maybe we could have areas were rogues (and mages) can have more fun.
I have lvl 8 rogue that can at the moment only solo Spittle Goblins ... and even that is not easy.

Sorry for chaotic post... Hope it made some sense.
Cheers

Maybe you didn't notice that killing things gives you coin? Essentially the fastest way, right now, to make coin on sundren is to... *GASP* party! Because you keep your expenses low (Need less healing), and you kill things faster (Rewards go up!). I think running the Bandits around Aquor, for example, you can come out with a few thousand a run. Not including boss drops or anything else you find, this is just from killing.

Essentially if someone comes to me and says "I can't make money soloing" I suddenly develop hearing problems and go "What you say?!" as if nothing got through