Random Scaling Encounters

[Wyvern76]

**
This is an idea I forwarded to another PW. The areas describe and monster specifics will not make sense but the idea and the power of it should be appearent
**


Concerns
Some players feel that there characters should be able to beat any spawn in an area for there characters level. Some players think that they have to engage any spawn that they encounter. Some players think that they should know what to expect for every encounter and feel cheated if anything surprising or different happens.


My Thoughts
My point is that PCs should have a sense of caution over valor.
Spawns should have some excitement and shouldn't leave players expecting and being prepared only for the same thing to appear over and over.


Every class built but straight fighter has a retreat or stealth mechanism. And fighters can use a few healing potions and can always withdraw. Running is surprisingly effective! I really would love to wander around with a proper encounter table. PCs should not think they can win every encounter and with the new spawn points they are not ambushed most of the time and could walk away.




The Idea
I have an idea for a scaling spawn table. Not a true spawn table but a pretty close approximation and using the minimum of logic. The work would involve creating the first script and then after that cut and pasting it to all spawn points. For different areas just plug in different values and monsters. It wouldn't take that much work to change all the area's to this much logic. I would say one days work as a builder. Also more verities of creatures would have to be come up with. All for the good of the people and fun on the server.




To clarify my idea is something like this. Say for "the dreaded Glades North"
In logic pseudo script


Code:
OnSpawn GetPCsLevel


(PCsLevel - 4) + 1d8 = SpawnVariable


Spawn Table=


SpawnVariable = >6 then TimberWolves(2d6)
= 7 to 10 then BanditFootPads(1d4)
= 11 to 12 then BanditFootPads(1d4) + BanditCleric(1)
= 13 to 15 then BanditFootPads(1d4) + BanditCleric(1) + BanditMage(1)
= 16 to 17 then Wyvern(1d2)
= 18 to 19 then BanditAssasins(2d4) IsStealthed = True
=< 20 then BanditFootPads(2d4) + BanditCleric(2) + BanditMage(2) + BanditBoss(1)




Theoretically. Only an level 16 character could see the nastiest spawn. And of course it would have be play tested and tweaked. Most Characters have a chance to have 3 different spawns. And for all but high level Assassins you could choose not to engage. Remember areas are designed to usually be traveled in a party. This is just a rough idea in my mind. And of course would be changed and adjusted by staff before being implemented.




An idea for Moscap Forest just outside the Farms. Just to give one more example to what I'm thinking.


Code:
OnSpawn GetPCsLevel


(PCsLevel - 3) + 1d6 = SpawnVariable


Spawn Table=


SpawnVariable = > 3 then GobinGatherer(1d2) IsStealthed = True
= 4 then Wolves(1d4)
= 5 to 6 then StandardGoblin(1d2) + GoblinSlinger(1d2)
= 7 then GoblinHunter(1d4) IsStealthed = True
= 8 then GoblinHunter(1d2) + BugBear(1) + GoblinShaman(1)
= 9 to 11 GnollTracker(1d3)
=< 12 (nothing)


At first glance this might look a bit hard for starting level 4 PCs. But they are only able to get the Goblin Gatherers, Wolves, Standard Goblins and if very unlucky 1d4 Goblin Hunters, but they are just level one rangers with short bows and daggers. Testing would see if the numbers would have to be adjusted one level easier. Also note that very high level characters will not even be bothered. Nice for players and makes sense that the local monsters aren't so foolish to engage high level PCs, they have learned form there fallen.


Monster Ideas
Goblin Gatherer ? A zero level Goblin that is neutral on spawn. They just wander about the forest looking for roots and berries and such. As a neutral they will fight back with a dagger if attacked.


Wolves ? 10hp, natural wolf that is in a different faction than the goblins and will hunt them if they see them. I have an idea that if possible they would run form CR Impossible PCs. That when killed the PC makes a Survival check DC14, to get a wolf pelt worth 10gp to the merchants.




I would be more than willing to come up with a draft of all spawn tables needed for all known areas to help the staff and work back and forth with them on this.

[Wyvern76]

So if possible to script. The work would be to create the first copy of each areas spawn table and then cut and paste.

Anything is better than static spawns.

[ipsissimus]

Spawns based on character level would mean, EXP for kills and potential lewts...which would create more players to wander around looking for a fight which would take away from the roleplaying aspect and the incredible RP/exp timer that was just implemented.

The DM's are the random encounter spawner...and as dangerous as the outskirts of Sundren may be, random encounters aren't really necessary yet.

Besides, when a higher level player runs through an area, they spawn harder and higher level encounters most of which they ignore and the lower levels that tend to frequent the area have a field day or meet their demise.

imo, I just don't think scaled/level triggered random encounter table spawner is needed. Besides, some bandits will attack people that they were not prepared for or expected.

"hmmm, that man dressed in simple brown robes carrying a large sack looks like an easy target"

moments later the monk stuns the bandit by attacking 47 different pressure points on his body before reverse spinning heel kicking him in the head.

I like the random dynamic spawn idea where things don't always respawn in the same area, to keep'em guessing...but this which might work for one PW doesn't seem very Sundren atm.

(i finally got exp for cooking soup and offering it to someone...sad but I am overjoyed)

[Scavar]

I'd have to agree with ipsi that it isn't very Sundren like.


The idea itself is excellent assuming you can do it like that, but you could use the same basic principle to change just the spawned creatures/location(by making one location extremely difficult to have spawns, and others more common, with a link between the tables stating if one spawns the other doesn't or something)


.....So yeah, good idea for sure, not really required I don't think, but I'm new so I could be wrong

[rustediron]

Perhaps just one area with the script implemented... just to see how the players react to it.

Personally, I think it sounds kinda fun especially the goblin gatherer and wolf bit

[Rannarix]

Encounters should literally be scaled accoridng to level.

So a level 20 encountering a goblin would meet a two hundred foot tall leviathan greenskin. Waaaaagh!

[GodBeastX]

Umm, you guys know the encounter system automatically scales per level if you put higher CR creatures into it? Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Second, we won't do something like this for a major reason:

We don't want people sitting in the same dungeon their whole career.


New players get on, go to sharahan hills "Cool, I'm gonna be a hero!" They walk out, and see a level 10 fighting in their spot they're meant to be questing and fighting in. Now, they can't party with the level 10 unless they want less experience or the higher level wants to do all the work. Sure you can RP the meeting and what not, but dungeon crawling to gain skill is RP too.

I'm happy with dungeons having a range. Some encounters in Sundren already scale for level. Anyone ever notice the necropolis has Bog zombies, then a higher level comes in and Hungry Bog Zombies spawn? No? I'm pretty sure Sharahan scales too where defenders will spawn more often if you have higher levels.

Point is, I'd rather not make a huge CR range for a dungeon.

[Scavar]

See I didn't know there was any scaling at all, so thats good to know. I don't really see any issues with the current system, and the points about people staying on area all their life makes a good bit of sense.

[Leevoth]

I think Wyvern is spot on with his idea of players exercising more caution, and not just running through memorized spawn points crushing all. On the last voting session I voted that the encounters were appropriately difficult, but if I could I'd change my vote. Anyone who has been to areas a few times can easily pick up on what to expect and deal with it easily. This doesn't reflect the 'randomness' of real life, (or DnD life for that matter).

I have the idea that maybe high level guys couldn't even find treasure in dungeons they shouldn't be in.

[rustediron]

There's scaling already? I thought those Goblins in Shaharan hit a bit hard... <- High level guy in an area he shouldn't be in

[ipsissimus]

I think Wyvern is spot on with his idea of players exercising more caution, and not just running through memorized spawn points crushing all. On the last voting session I voted that the encounters were appropriately difficult, but if I could I'd change my vote. Anyone who has been to areas a few times can easily pick up on what to expect and deal with it easily. This doesn't reflect the 'randomness' of real life, (or DnD life for that matter).

I have the idea that maybe high level guys couldn't even find treasure in dungeons they shouldn't be in.

That's not really realistic now is it?

Higher levels not finding anything worth anything? How would you make money once you reached your dungeon level limit? It would be really crowded in that one area once treasure was limited to encounter level vs. your level. Someone who has more potential could find a way, someone who doesn't be it from a int/wis/cha aspect or just not creative thinking would have no choice but to get it from adventuring even if it was selling copper rings, mundane weapons, and fish.

Besides, once you're of level where you can handle the places where you once struggled you gain the a little bit of sweet revenge on those goblins or gnolls that gave you so much heartache and trips to the fugue. Now if you do this 24/7 you need to check your neck.

Every player can and should be allowed to go where ever they have access too...they shouldn't be penalized for it, the smarter ones or the ones truer to their characters will just find it boring because of the lack of challenge or just not go because it doesn't make sense for them to be there in the first place.

the world is dangerous, you shouldn't restrict adventurer's from going where they want to...that's the beauty of exploration. If they find something they can't handle bring more help, make notes, and/or run the other way.

[Scourn]

While realisim is good, also has to be real gamewise. Things scale fine as it is. Im 15, I dont want to go to a low level area for RP like I do sometimes but have to buff myself up like im going into wolrd war 3 because some goblins and gnolls suddenly become godlike because of my "level" in game. That is just stupid.

[rustediron]

15? you the current record holder then?

[Wyvern76]

While realisim is good, also has to be real gamewise. Things scale fine as it is. Im 15, I dont want to go to a low level area for RP like I do sometimes but have to buff myself up like im going into wolrd war 3 because some goblins and gnolls suddenly become godlike because of my "level" in game. That is just stupid.

Alot of you are missing the point of my suggestion, or simply picking out the example part you don't like.

Even in my example, there is still a range and goblins aren't going to suddenly spawn tougher. Did you read the post or just skim the header?

The idea is to add some variablity to areas so you don't see the exact spawns over and over AND add a little bit of scaling. You can add as much scaling as you like with the logic in the system. You could just have 3 different encounters all designed for the same level on each spawn point. There is no automatic scaling with this system. No need to worry about level 15 people walking in and getting all the level 3s slaughtered. Unless you want that of course.

[Darkended Blade]

I think the spawning, as it is now, is fine. I don't believe there is need to change it.