Helmite cloak alignment?

[Dlareh]

Helm is an LN diety, and his clerics can be LG or LE. Lawful is the important thing. There is a Shield of Helm that is only usable by LN, and that's as it should be.

However, there is a "Helmite cloak" that is only usable by good. What's up with that?

I recently made an LN cleric of Helm, and I'd like to wear it but cannot because of the incorrect restriction

Only usable by Lawful would make the most sense. But I'd settle for usable by Good and Neutral, like the Noble items . . .

[Raksha]

This is because the item is misnamed. It is actually a "Tormite cloak" and bears the symbol of Torm, not Helm. As far as I'm aware, that's actually as it was intended to be.

[Blue_Wyrm]

I'd like to use this thread to suggest that for the sake of making sense, changing the alignment requirements on items from general alignment types to a very specific list of alignments. For exemple, items "of the Dark Art" are for Evil or Neutral character, but that also means Neutral Good people can wear those items, when the description sometimes even mention they're made with demon flesh! Likewise, the something-Champion armor pieces made for Good or Neutral characters can be worn by Neutral Evils, which while handy doesn't make much sense. I suggest changing for exemple Dark Arts alignment restriction for:

Lawful Evil
Neutral
Neutral Evil
Chaotic Neutral
Chaotic Evil

[Dark__Soul]

i'm just curious though, since the fact that Helm is only a neutral diety because of his life asa guard, but he has his fare share of Paladins

[ipsissimus]

I'd like to use this thread to suggest that for the sake of making sense, changing the alignment requirements on items from general alignment types to a very specific list of alignments. For exemple, items "of the Dark Art" are for Evil or Neutral character, but that also means Neutral Good people can wear those items, when the description sometimes even mention they're made with demon flesh! Likewise, the something-Champion armor pieces made for Good or Neutral characters can be worn by Neutral Evils, which while handy doesn't make much sense. I suggest changing for exemple Dark Arts alignment restriction for:

Lawful Evil
Neutral
Neutral Evil
Chaotic Neutral
Chaotic Evil

nothing should prevent a LN character from using Dark Arts equipment, let along the shield itself. ...and an evil aligned person wearing "good and neutral aligned" equipment could be in diguise or the mere fact they are wearing crusader gear might be intentional to mock good heroes etc.

and a neutral good "demon slayer" should have no issues wearing the shield of the dark arts with stretched demon hide on it...because that's what they hunt so why not show their prey what could become of them.

imo this can get out of hand and then you further restrict player from further personalizing their appearance with limited choices due to their alignment even further...next thing you know every druid and ranger will be wearing green cloaks and matching hoods.

within reason, but not without reason.

[Xanderleo]

next thing you know every druid and ranger will be wearing green cloaks and matching hoods.

within reason, but not without reason.

*narrows eyes*

See that's why my green cloak and hood is actually made from dyed marshmallows and pure love.

*breaks twig and violently jabs the sharp end into ipsissimus' eye*

[Blue_Wyrm]

Well, I don't really care which way it goes, but the alignment restrictions on item in my opinion should be either more defined and restrictive, or there should be none at all to allow disguises and such. Because right now it's really just favouring alignments with neutral composites too much, leaving LG/LE/CG/CE characters in the dust behind in gear availability. This is not about making more items (I know that's a dead horse), but about re-examining alignment restrictions on items.

Another question to add on the topic: what in an item creates the alignment restriction? The repulsiveness that the item represents to the eye of a character who is morally opposed to what the item stands for? Or simply some unfathomable magical force that repulses individual of fixed moralities?

[Machiavelli]

Well, I don't really care which way it goes, but the alignment restrictions on item in my opinion should be either more defined and restrictive, or there should be none at all to allow disguises and such. Because right now it's really just favouring alignments with neutral composites too much, leaving LG/LE/CG/CE characters in the dust behind in gear availability. This is not about making more items (I know that's a dead horse), but about re-examining alignment restrictions on items.

Another question to add on the topic: what in an item creates the alignment restriction? The repulsiveness that the item represents to the eye of a character who is morally opposed to what the item stands for? Or simply some unfathomable magical force that repulses individual of fixed moralities?

Think Golem and the Elven rope... "it burnnnssss!". Though I imagine the exact effect depends on the exact item; magic items of any power are rare and powerful and will have properties very specific to that item (or so I always understood it).

[Dark presence]

Personally I don't like alignment restrictions on items. It really doesn't make sense to me why some weak magic item is so limited in who can use it. On more powerful items, sure. Deity restrictions, sure. But considering the very low magic nature of the stuff being sold, it doesn't really make sense to me that alignment should have any noticeable factor.

[ThePaganKing]

Sundren is a low magic world, so even what you consider low magic is probably potent magic to people in Sundren.

If you could find a +2 item, that would probably be wondrous, because they do not exist, at least I have never seen them since the server deletion.

[sparkeh]

Hmm I think of it in a couple of ways depending on the context.

1) The item is repulsive to use. For example, Chief Spittlefist drops a a mace that is basically a skull on a stick. Would a Good char use it? Probably not.

2) The item bestows some kind of favour from a Deity. Say you get a helmet with some kind of benefit from a Good Deity, would that Deity want any old evil guy popping it on his head as he goes about his evil guy business? Here is kinda think of it as the effect not working or that you would never wear the gear sanctified by a God who is in opposition to you. Either is good for me.

[Blue_Wyrm]

I have seen a fabled +2 weapon, and it's not very difficult to -locate-, but I must say it's very awe-inspiring when you put it next to any other item Sundrenites wear. Its name also appears in crimson red. ^_^

[Machiavelli]

Personally I don't like alignment restrictions on items. It really doesn't make sense to me why some weak magic item is so limited in who can use it. On more powerful items, sure. Deity restrictions, sure. But considering the very low magic nature of the stuff being sold, it doesn't really make sense to me that alignment should have any noticeable factor.

There's no such thing as a "weak" magic item on Sundren... from what I know of the server crafting rules, consider that most of them couldn't be crafted by someone with a caster level much less than 12 (and probably many would require a higher one)... and creating something with extra frost/divine/whatever damage requires rare components. If the church of Torm, or Helm, were to create powerful items intended for their priests/knights they'd want to make sure that they couldn't be used by Banites or the like if they fell into their hands. Just my 2 cents...

[undeadsteak]

I have seen a fabled +2 weapon, and it's not very difficult to -locate-, but I must say it's very awe-inspiring when you put it next to any other item Sundrenites wear. Its name also appears in crimson red. ^_^

Whoa, red?

I've only seen blue and orange (Before the wipe), I thought red was really epic. What other enchantments does it have?

[Blue_Wyrm]

Half the fun is to find it and see for yourself, no?
My guess is we'll get to see at least another of those at each faction merchant for those with the highest standing with their faction. But I'm just speculating. ^_^