Detect Undead

[Vichtor]

Is there any way to make this a spell of two schools instead of one? It doesn't make sense that a Necromancy-specialized wizard is denied what would appear to be one of the most basic spells in his school; the ability to detect creatures, constructs, or objects animated through the use of the Necromantic (is that a word? If not it SHOULD be) school of magic.

To specify: "Detect Undead" is a Divination spell. Divination is the forbidden school for those specializing in Necromancy.

Just my two copper...

[Morbius]

I agree. If not Detect undead.. perhaps a spell called Undead Presence or something.

[ipsissimus]

trying to hunt for vampires?

[rustediron]

DIE SYLLOVEN DIE
also those invincible vampire thralls that came after me the other day.

[GodBeastX]

Is it necromancy in P&P?

[Echelon13]

You are divining the race of a creature. That is divination, not necromancy. I see no problem with this, as the spell does not appear to have any necromantic elements in it.

[Saulus]

While it would be neat to detect undead as a necromancer I do agree this is divination. And I'm pretty sure per PnP rules it is as well.

[Xanderleo]

PnP does rule it that way, the problem is that with PnP a specialized wizard gets to choose which two schools he'll be prohibited in, which may not be divination. This being the case, it wouldn't always be restricted to Necromancers.

Unfortunately due to NWN game mechanics, a specialist doesn't have an option here.

[Vichtor]

You are divining the race of a creature. That is divination, not necromancy. I see no problem with this, as the spell does not appear to have any necromantic elements in it.

Undead is not a race.

A necromancer should be able to recognize the workings of his specialized school. It only makes sense. Undead things are created and animated through the use of a specific kind of magic. This is backed by the existance of Disrupting weapons (specifically created to annul the magic that holds undead together). Why then, logically, would someone who is SPECIALIZED in that kind of magic, be totally blind to its existance around him or her? It doesn't make sense.

In P&P, it is Divination. It has been stated many times, though, that NWN/Sundren is NOT P&P. The point was made that a Necromancer in P&P can choose which school to forsake, whereas that is not an option in NWN.

I'm just asking if it's possible and if it makes sense to anyone else.

[Rhifox]

There is no valid reason for any kind of detect undead spell to be under necromancy. A necromancer could not magically discern what magic type something is without using divination, even if that magic type was necromancy, because necromancy is manipulating life and death, not magically sensing the differences between life and death. He could tell undead by eyesight (an 'undead sight' feet for pale master or something would be neat), and by being able to decipher the spell while it was being cast, but necromancy as the school of manipulating life and death has nothing to do with magically detecting the type of magic.

As much as a necromancer can understand the workings of their school, they can't divinate it through magical means. So thus, no *spell*. However, again, some kind of feet or perhaps even a spellcraft check could be used to that regard (for instance, in MotB, you are able to determine that the berserker's throwing knives are enchanted and see through the genie's disguise via a spellcraft check. You can probably do the same to determine if a creature is raised by necromancy). Just because you can't identify it magically doesn't mean you can't use mundane means of identifying necromantic magicks. Hell, Complete Mage even recommends that necromancers don't bother much with Detect Undead, because "in most cases, you'll know immediately when you face an undead creature".

[GodBeastX]

Probably for the invisible ones he wants it.

I agree with above posts, this is divination.

And also... Undead is a race. I hate to say it, but it's as much a race as Outsider in our engine

[Drancor]

undead

The last server i played on had a entire pc class of undead, i agree with the posters above. Most undead types, zombie, skelly, Lich and so on , no need to detect them its fairly easy to tell thier undead. The case of a vampire is a differnt story, part of thier mystic and fear is the fact they can blend in with normal humans. So simply allowing someone to walk in room and "poof" oh your undead! would really mess with the RP i think. now on the other hand if they are tryin to take a chomp out of your neck, its pretty safe to say you have detected that they most likely are undead. hahahh

[Blue_Wyrm]

The case of a vampire is a differnt story, part of thier mystic and fear is the fact they can blend in with normal humans.

I very much agree with you here, vampires are a special case. Where you'll recognize on sight a lich in its true form or a ghast as undead creatures, you shouldn't just look at a vampire or a lich disguised with an illusion (a-la-Szass Tam) and immediately recognize them for what they are.

Unless, of course, you insist on making yourself known and being "advertised" on wanted posters throughout the country. *winks at a certain person*

[Scourn]

Couldnt agree more. No need for extra work for people when 95% of the time is super obvious if its undead or not.

The last server i played on had a entire pc class of undead, i agree with the posters above. Most undead types, zombie, skelly, Lich and so on , no need to detect them its fairly easy to tell thier undead. The case of a vampire is a differnt story, part of thier mystic and fear is the fact they can blend in with normal humans. So simply allowing someone to walk in room and "poof" oh your undead! would really mess with the RP i think. now on the other hand if they are tryin to take a chomp out of your neck, its pretty safe to say you have detected that they most likely are undead. hahahh

[Morbius]

Lets see.. As necromancy does not have any divination spells, they do have a spell which allows the dead to speak to them ... therbye gaining a type of divination via conversation with the dead. now I know this can't be applied directly as it is in pnp, but would be cool to have a modified version that allows you to perhaps divine a creature directly... like a type of tracking? Maybe with a chance of failure as the dead corpse...etc.. maty not cooperate. i can find the exact name of the spell in 3.5 if you wish?