Magic Items

[Venture]

I'm playing a monk, but i cant find no gear! but it is good to have access to a handful of mages

[Saulus]

I'm playing a monk, but i cant find no gear! but it is good to have access to a handful of mages

Try the monestary in Sestra.

[Venture]

I don't really think the classes need balancing - it just doesn't make sense that every class would be "equal in power." People shouldn't play bards and expect to be as magically proficient as sorcerers or martially powerful as fighters. People play bards for their unique talents. That said, I do think a server should probably be balanced to be survivable for most class options.

I definitely disagree with the idea that the server needs to remove classes from the playable selection - one of the things I love about the current D&D system is the variety of options one has in customizing his/her character. I've never played first edition, and have no idea what's in store for the fourth, but it sounds like these editions have class selection closer to that of a MMO: everybody is limited to a cookie-cutter assortment of classes and it's practically impossible to differentiate your character from the rest of the world in any significant way.

The simple truth is 3.5 wasn't meant to be completely balanced - the classes are only supposed to be viable choices. And given that Sundren isn't a PvP-only or Arena server, balancing the classes shouldn't be a huge concern anyway.

AMEN brother, I play this game cause of the 100s of ridiculous out of this world multiclass characters that bounce around in my brain. I like coming up with odd character designs.

[Satoshi]

Wangxiuming, Venture - Congratulations, good sirs. You understand the spirit of Dungeons and Dragons better than most out there. MMOs cater to everyone being the same, so that no one feels 'specialized' or 'underpowered' without having to make a game very deep or change the cookie-cutter choice of monsters. Dungeons and Dragons was designed, then exanded, and finally evolved to a point where each of the various roles are specific and defined - a rogue CANNOT play the same way as a Fighter, and a Mage cannot play the same way as a Cleric. If people wanted to submit to that style of play, they'd go to 'City of Heroes', 'World of Warcraft', "Dark Ages of Camelot', or any number of those games that cater to such styles of gameplay.

I would prefer that the game go to Pen and Paper rules, where every creature drops it's weapon, armour, a fistful of gold, and whatever potions/scrolls it was carrying that it didn't use. However, I'd prefer the death rules, and experience rules as well - a few fights can net a level, but if you do it risky or wrong, you die and stay dead unless you have really caring friends.

[wangxiuming]

I'm sorry, WHAT????
Here is my gut reaction:
"I'm a role player!!" You guys seem so ready to scream. All these blah blah blah, etc, on and on forever posts about your characters's history, religion, family tree, and you are actually frikkin' worrying about limited class selection???? Role play it. Or just come right out and admit that you WANT to keep your precious power gaming intact. Variety, my arse.

Here's my politically correct, anti-hemorrhoid inflaming version:

You are all very clearly members of a skilled role playing server community. As such, classes, and balance probably don't weigh on you in the way that they do to obsessive stat-mongerers. Any classes tweaked or removed can easily be role played with aplomb. A balance of classes does not mean boredom. It means FREEDOM. Freedom to choose whatever class suits your fancy, and role play anything missing. It is freedom from feeling drawn to a Warlock over the Duelist, for fear of being "gimped" in epic level combats. No one like likes to lose a contest that is won by stats more than skill. We are working to make your skill be your strongest asset!

BTW, -both- are true sentiments from me. The second moreso than the first.

I resent the insinuation that I want to "keep my powergaming intact." What basis do you have to make such an accusation? I simply would prefer all the class options to remain open.

I can not wrap my head around the idea that somehow by restricting available options, freedom is being promoted. Shouldn't we be most free when all the choices are present and viable? Then we'd be free to choose what we want, instead of being restricted to specific classes. You say we can "roleplay" the restricted classes ... but exactly how ridiculous would it look when a sorcerer "roleplaying a warlock" ran out of spells? How would a fighter roleplay a paladin when he can't heal or turn undead? How do you roleplay a red dragon disciple when none of your abilities reflect as such? I don't mean to sound combative, but this makes no sense to me.

Roleplaying on a NWN2 server can be kind of empty if you don't have the game mechanics to back it up. =\

[Raksha]

@Satoshi: Well said. My primary concern is that without at least some care, the hybrid casters will fight better than fighters, but in the same style, rendering the class and its playstyle superfluous. It would be like introducing a class with a d10 hit die and full BAB, but Disable Trap and Open Lock as class skills.

I'd like to see an environment where all of the characters can flourish, and where all of them can feel at least modestly useful. Some may be more powerful than others, ayup, but no one class should completely dominate another class' specialization.

[wangxiuming]

...what? o_O

[Vichtor]

Lallendos' CoH character HAS to be named "RantMan"

[GodBeastX]

Okay, the original post was on magic items.

We're currently HEAVILY working on magic items. It hurts right now because it's not done. Shops are being stocked, modified, all the time. We've got crafting now too, check the Thayan Enclave and such. We're trying to get things so you can get the gear you want.

I hate to say it because I know what my reaction would be, but I have to "Small amount of patience". Quest system is being developed to give rewards too, which actually will include magic items and such as well. Pleaaaaaase be patient.

As for class balance. I don't care if every class is balanced. I just hate warlocks.

[Raksha]

Thank you, GBX. Many many thanks. ^_^ That would have answered my initial post very much.

Don't worry, we the playerbase are patient and we love you all. Give us goodies free of expense on our part at whatever rate suits y'all best.

[Ithildin]

Disclaimer: This isn't meant to be flaming/bashing or anything else. Nothing is meant to be taken personal it’s just something that needs to be said.

In response to some of Lallendos' posts on this thread:

I have played CoH and CoV and honestly the only thing I really liked about it was the character appearance customization. The missions are often the same thing over and over, the pvp was ok for a little bit but not really my thing, neither were the raids on super group bases. As for the power options, DnD shouldn't be cookie cutter for classes people should have the option to make things that are fun for them it’s a game, its meant to be fun. To put it simply, your love of CoH isn't shared by everyone, it’s not a perfect game, you have your views on it others have theirs, they don't have to agree with your opinion on it and you don't theirs.

You posted that we seem ready to scream... well if we are ready to do it, to me it seems like you already are screaming. DnD isn't CoH comparing the two games doesn't really prove anything. As for how long you been playing, honestly that doesn't mean anything to most people, the game has changed since you started playing, you been playing 3.5 rules as long as the rest of us have. 1st edition rules mean nothing in nwn 2.

I agree with Satoshi and the others, DnD isn't designed around balance, every class isn't equal and shouldn't be, each class is specialized in a way. And yes you did say removal of options, you said classes could be tweaked or removed, which if removed is a removal of an option.

From reading many of your posts, you seem to be an elitist hardcore role player type, many people are more of a causal rper, while that may see like they are power gamers and worried about their "uber" gear and great stats when they are upset about losing characters to you, it doesn't make them one. Nothing against you personally that is just how you seem to come off as when you are posting, often you’re calling people power gamers and such in your posts. If you stopped bashing the player base because they are more causal rpers than hardcore they might not see you as doing number 3 and 4 under the bad section you posted

3. The players feel I see them as Power Gaming munchkins that need to be baby sat with an iron hand.
4. The player base sees me as the antagonist to their desired enjoyment of Sundren.

Also, I believe you said this game is PvP while there is pvp in nwn the server isn't an arena server so doesn't need to be balanced around beating each other senseless.

Again this is not meant as flaming or a personal attack on Lallendos, it’s in response to previous posts of his on this thread.

[Venture]

Okay, the original post was on magic items.

We're currently HEAVILY working on magic items. It hurts right now because it's not done. Shops are being stocked, modified, all the time. We've got crafting now too, check the Thayan Enclave and such. We're trying to get things so you can get the gear you want.

I hate to say it because I know what my reaction would be, but I have to "Small amount of patience". Quest system is being developed to give rewards too, which actually will include magic items and such as well. Pleaaaaaase be patient.

thanks for this post this is positive and helpful and i personally (no that it matters) appreciate seeing a post that isnt combative. There's no reason for us to fight and argue. We all enjoy the server and the world, and those that dont, well, hate to say it, but theres a few more out there. I've checked these forums a few times today, and read alot of arguing, and posts that read as though the writer was frustrated and pissed off. We all want to have fun. We are the minority of the population, the people who still want to play a dwarf or an elf, the people that actually know what the DnD reference "in that TV show or movie" actually meant. Let's get along and make this a fun place to waste our valuable time. there's a 100 more productive things I could be doing, building cars, making money, playing on another server that has'nt been going through growing pains. But I'm still here and so are alot of other people. Let's make this a great server (said like I actually have much to provide in that department) and have the sense to take a breather when its not fun.

[Stratigo]

Good god....


OK CoH, nothing at all to do with Sundren...

Now then, I actually realize the lack of magic is most likely do to it just not being implemented yet then the staff deciding to go no magic.

As for Balancing, honestly I know that a mage wil rape and pillage a fighter, I just hate EKs. EKs were made for those who like to Min max(Because a EK needs to be Minmaxed or it sucks) and powergame, because they are a power gamed class. The only ones able to take them are once again your pure mage classes.

Oh and like GBX Warlocks annoy me. Mostly because I am playing and at least half the people on are warlocks. I like my worlds fluffy. That many Warlocks is unrealistic.

I'll be honest that deep deep down I play fighters because I hate having to click all those bloody spells in special places and crap like that. I like to be able to multi task and surf the internet as I run my fighter around, not have to baby sit a character to be sure I get this spell off at the time and this ward doesn't run out just yet.

[Ula Fey]

I just hate EKs. EKs were made for those who like to Min max(Because a EK needs to be Minmaxed or it sucks) and powergame, because they are a power gamed class. The only ones able to take them are once again your pure mage classes.

You can come and kick seven bells out of Ula at any point you like - she's built around the EK class because it fits her character and backstory, but she's so focussed towards crafting skills she's completely squishy in combat.

The fact is any class can be valid for role-play. If problems arise, it's with the players, not the classes. Any class or stat combination can be abused, or can be validly used as a way to gain the skills necessary to allow the character to be role-played within the limits of the NWN2/DnD game mechanics.

Btw, have you met my alternative character? He's a half orc bard/beserker/RDD based around a roman theme.

I call him General Minimus Maximus.

[Vichtor]

3. The players feel I see them as Power Gaming munchkins that need to be baby sat with an iron hand.

Well...you HAVE flat-out called several players powergamers, immature, and bad roleplayers with absolutely no foundation for the accusations (I have been one on the recieving end of these myself). So this particular note is just a reflection of what you HAVE done so far. Doesn't mean it's a constant or the actual state of mind, but it's not an unfounded or random view, you've done quite a bit to reinforce it.

Easily enough altered, but at this stage it shouldn't be a surprise. Most of this community doesn't dwell on the past though, and most are very optimistic so this is a stigma that will go away in its own time if any effort at all is put toward erasing it.