Cheapen Vampiric Regeneration

[The Butcher]

TLDR: More vamp regeneration for low AC melee builds at lower prices!

After looking at all the ways to obtain vampiric regeneration, I believe that it is far too expensive and difficult to acquire, especially considering the reward versus other options. My suggestion is to make vampiric regeneration more easily available for players, especially the low AC, non-caster, melee builds, since the enchantment helps only that small demographic, and because the enchantment is rather useless otherwise.

Vampiric regeneration is simply not worth its exuberant prices. Vampiric regeneration +2 on a weapon requires a King's Tear -- the same cost it takes to get a +4 AC enchant on armor. Or worse, a player has to be 15 levels of Barbarian. Or double worse, joining the Colibrite faction. Furthermore, the enchantment is not very useful in CvC; combat lasts only a few rounds, and if combat lasts any longer than that, it's because neither party involved in the CvC is hitting the other, which means vampiric regeneration isn't being capitalized on.

The way a player must capitalize on vampiric regeneration helps only a very particular demographic: low AC, high attacks/round characters, and only in CvE. If the characters are high AC, it will help mend a few critical hits a player might receive while grinding, which is nice, but the character will be better off investing in damage to end combat more quickly and bandaging every now and then. However, for the melee characters that have low AC like barbarians, melee rangers, frenzied berserkers, rogues, and weird RP builds, vampiric regeneration can help them stay in combat a little bit longer and grind a little more safely. For example, having a +1 vampiric regeneration weapon on my frenzied berserker helped a lot because of Supreme Cleave healing -- although its use quickly diminished to useless at level 13-14. Also, Lauan Tissle (another frenzied berserker) has to rely on her supreme cleave and vampiric regen +2 (or +3) to survive in Mossdale.

The last point is that there are +3 regeneration rings available to Black Hand members and Blackwood members. 6 HP regeneration a round is far better than +2 vampiric regeneration on a blade, and obtaining two regeneration rings is far cheaper than any equivalent vampiric regeneration item currently in the game.

Sorry for being long winded, but I have thought on this matter for quite some time!

[crawmorr]

Agreed , but it will take out all the charm for being a Colibrite . Also , Black Hand has low numbers lately ,this may break the balance more than ever. But its certanly a topic to discuss . Cheers!

[Farmboy2003]

Good arguments, but:

1. Crafting system is a dead horse as kit will probably comment on. Some stuff is being looked at by him and some other players, but the devs have generally decided to overhaul crafting, and doesnt seem to give it high priority.

2. Seems to me there's plenty of other stuff to fix about crafting than that specifically. Reagents missing from the server, recipes not working, or working as intended etc.

[Torgar]

My full level 20 fighter doesn't need any vamp regen to run mossdale at all. It's quite doable, and he's not a strong fighter build, ask anyone. I think vamp regen being hard to get is just fine. I'd be more inclined to agree for it being cheaper if potions of heal and rings of regeneration had not been added to stores. As such, it's cheaper and more effective to use those means IMO.

[wangxiuming]

I think that was the point of Butcher's suggestion ... that since heal potions and rings of regeneration make vampiric regeneration obsolete, maybe vampiric regeneration should be made cheaper. =X

[The Butcher]

As such, it's cheaper and more effective to use those means IMO.

I think that was the point of Butcher's suggestion ... that since heal potions and rings of regeneration make vampiric regeneration obsolete, maybe vampiric regeneration should be made cheaper. =X

Exactly. Also, 20 fighter is amazing for PvE almost any way you build it.

[Talleyman99]

Im not against the idea, but Id rather see player group up and see more clerics played. Or Id rather see the classes pointed out finally buffed like the other classes on the server. Cheap vamp, coupled with rings of regen, and pots of heal will add to players who solo. while soloing is not the worst thing to happen in the world, DnD (so i'll imply Sundren and Neverwinter) is a group sport.

Also when it comes to a clash of titans in CvC every advantage helps

[The Butcher]

Good arguments, but:

1. Crafting system is a dead horse as kit will probably comment on. Some stuff is being looked at by him and some other players, but the devs have generally decided to overhaul crafting, and doesnt seem to give it high priority.

2. Seems to me there's plenty of other stuff to fix about crafting than that specifically. Reagents missing from the server, recipes not working, or working as intended etc.

This is not a crafting system complaint or suggestion. I did use the cost of enchanting +2 vampiric regeneration as one of my points to an argument. The items can be introduced through faction stores and other means. I would be happy with DMs being more relaxed with putting heftier vampiric regeneration bonuses on their items, and that is the point: relaxing how stingy the world treats vampiric generation. There is an unmerited weight/value placed on it.

[Kitsunestume]

Counter to Farmboy's suggestion, I know for a fact that both of these schema work, and are currently available for sale at your local Arcane Manufacturer.

To be fair, I still think that the Draining (standard) is rather affordable. Only 2 rubies (at 8kish each), a radiant water (500 GP) plus another 6-k for just making it, plus fifteen fatigue. Total at about 31k for 1 HP back per hit, on the weapon of your choice.

Compared to a Ring of Regen 3 at 53k, that isn't half shabby (one or three quarters may be debated)

Agreed that the Greater Draining is a bit of a doozy: A King's Tear (75k, but its price is rediculously inflated due to it's rarity and use in the most crafting patterns of any gem by at least a factor of two), Brilliant Water essence (2k), 9k in gold from the design, and 30 fatigue. Sure, it's on par with a +4 armor enchant in terms of demand, though two-thirds the time to recover from. Still costs an estimated 107k though. Changing it from a King's Tear to just about any other gem would drop the market value down to the 40-50k range, which is on-par with the Ring.

I think that part of the reason for it's limitation is as Talleyman points out to be solo-reduction, but also generally the Staff disinclination to have permanent magical items (as opposed to disposable obsolescent products: such as potions and charges).

I can see that whirlwind/Vamp could get funny in larger crowds, with the ability to whack and heal from anyone in range (consider a WM with vamp-2). Though an FB would need that much to counter the "stop-hitting-yourself" class ability.

for Butcher:
TL;DR: We know FB kinda sucks. :-/ Items probably aren't the right way to balance a class who's 'big ability' is killing themselves at accelerated rates.

Or you could always be a Black-hand/Blackwood/Legion FB. That works too.

[ManUtd4Ever]

Regeneration rings were first introduced into the Blackwood Company store as +4 regeneration for on or about 80,000.

Within about three days those rings were reduced to +3 regeneration rings and some time later the price was reduced and eventually normalized at 53,000 in each of the faction stores that provided them.

I like that you have to have 3,000 reputation points to purchase the rings. It takes about that much grinding of reputation to be able to afford a ring in the first place. So I wouldn't want to see that change because unless you retired an epic level character to begin with, you would be hard pressed to have the coin to get regeneration as a low level toon.

Now, with that said... I have always agreed that the King's Tear requirement for Greater Draining was excessive once the regeneration rings were introduced on the server. Until such time, it was appropriate. I would like to see that requirement reduced. Placing a vampiric enchantment on a weapon is kinda of a waste given the availability of the rings; however, I completely understand the RP value of having such a weapon. I am thinking of the "jeweled dagger" Artemis Entreri carries and how he would slowly drain the life out of his prey by piercing the skin on the victim's palm. It aids in interrogations for sure.

Cheers!

[sonuvalich]

Total at about 31k for 1 HP back per hit, on the weapon of your choice.

Compared to a Ring of Regen 3 at 53k, that isn't half shabby (one or three quarters may be debated)

Except the regen 3 is always on and doesn't require successful melee attacks. You can run circles making Curly "whoo-whoo-whoo" noises and be healing. Thrice the healing, 100% of the time, for less than double the cost.
While the vamp regen might outshine for a character who is making a lot of hits/round it does nothing for those rounds you are closing the gap to an archer/spellcaster or fighting something that is ethereal, displaced, invisible, or just jacked AC out the ass. So I think Butcher's point about the costs being revisited has some merit, especially because not every faction has regen items (*cough Enclave cough cough*....also we don't have bone wands godammit!)

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Anything to do with crafting is a dead horse issue, until we get a DEV who is willing to put in the time to make it better. Once that happens, we'll be willing to revisit any and all suggestions to improve it.

[Phantom Lamb]

Vampiric regen is only really strong in PVE, so I don't mind it at all if it appears in more weapons. A few things on that:

- We can add it to more of the weapon drops from monsters pretty easily, and then add a negative modifier to cost to make it seem less valuable.

- We won't tweak the crafting vamp regen - dead horse. Maybe one day we'll completely overhaul the crafting, but little tweaks to crafting won't occur until that day.

- It's unlikely vamp regen pops up in many vendor stores for RP reasons. I believe it's considered an evil magical property - though I'd like to hear someone in the know weigh in. If it isn't, I can add it to more gear that is publicly available.

[thaelis]

Regarding the issue of vampiric regeneration....

My jaw is still on the floor that you can wear two rings of regeneration and they stack.

A King's Tear does seem a bit steep for the +2 version though, even for Sundren's eyeball-haemorrhage-inducing crafting system.

[bipolar bear]

Regarding the issue of vampiric regeneration....

My jaw is still on the floor that you can wear two rings of regeneration and they stack.

A King's Tear does seem a bit steep for the +2 version though, even for Sundren's eyeball-haemorrhage-inducing crafting system.

so we could have vampire players with 2 rings of regen on, and get like +18 regen a round? little much I think.